2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Luscion]

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/qata ... e-lewis-p7

Shovlin

FP1 was a solid session for us which is important on a sprint weekend with there being just one hour to get the car ready for Sprint Qualifying. Our initial performance showed our single lap performance wasn’t quite there, but our long run pace looked more competitive, so we were able to learn enough to make the required changes to move us in the right direction for Sprint Qualifying.

We were optimistic coming into the weekend but didn’t expect to see our performance in the same window as we did in Vegas so George’s P2 today is encouraging for the Team. Pace across the top four teams looks very close so it’s beneficial to be starting the Sprint Race on the front row. Lewis was looking competitive in his final lap of SQ3 but unfortunately lost a little time in the last two corners, prior to this it looked like he was going to also finish in the top four. We have a bit of time between now and Qualifying tomorrow to continue to work on our single lap performance.

[GrizzleBoy]

Lewis performed similarly both years. George just stepped up big time.

P3 to P7 is "similar performance", and P8 to P6 is a "big time" perfor.ance jump?

You see, this is what I'm trying to get at. The cognitive dissonance is wild.

It either flips from Lewis being a dud to George being on his A-game based on which sounds best for George at the time.

If you call Lewis washed, that means George's P6 this year is diminished.

If you say George is just having bis best ever season this year, you have to deny the huge performance slump Lewis has had since 2023, because closely defeating someone who most people expect to do better doesn't sound good either.

It doesn't really matter, what matters is the net result, and this season Russell has comprehensively outperformed Lewis in every metric. We will get a better gauge on things next season when Russell is partnered with a rapid youngster in Kimi.

That's my point. This is supposed to be George's best ever performance at Merc, but he's only just about beating a team mate on his way to another team, whos having his worst ever season in the sport.

Regarding Kimi. If he can qualify close to George and doesn't suffer George's curse of going backwards relative to qualifying position in most races, George will likely be under pressure quite quickly.

The uncharacteristically large gap in qualifying is the only thing that kept George's 2024 from being a horror story. If he has a team mate who can do well on Saturday and Sunday, he'll be very gloomy.

That said, since Brazil he's been doing a lot better race pace wise, though the races he's done well at have been outliers in terms of other teams relative pace. Well see next year i suppose.

[Cs98]

If Lewis had one or two better qualis, George would only move up one WDC place this year and the teams prospects politically/sponsor wise/optics wise would be looking dim.

So you are pondering if Hamilton had done "one or two better qualis" and how that would have impacted the standings? Mind you, nothing stopped him from performing better in quali. Wouldn't a far more fair and realistic thought experiment be, "what if we count Russell winning Spa, and finishing top 4 at Silverstone"?

The truth is Russell hasn't been a little bit better this year, he's been significantly better. It's 17-5 in quali and 12-6 in the races (where both finish). The only thing that has kept it close in the WDC is Russell having bad luck at their two best tracks where Hamilton ended up winning. Just that was 50 points in the driver battle, all of which has been overcome by George since then. On just performance George should be leading by 60 points by now.

[Luscion]

Max had some nice things about Lewis today, saying he doesnt think Lewis has lost "it"

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/315575/m ... -2026.html

[GrizzleBoy]

If Lewis had one or two better qualis, George would only move up one WDC place this year and the teams prospects politically/sponsor wise/optics wise would be looking dim.

So you are pondering if Hamilton had done "one or two better qualis" and how that would have impacted the standings? Mind you, nothing stopped him from performing better in quali. Wouldn't a far more fair and realistic thought experiment be, "what if we count Russell winning Spa, and finishing top 4 at Silverstone"?

The truth is Russell hasn't been a little bit better this year, he's been significantly better. It's 17-5 in quali and 12-6 in the races (where both finish). The only thing that has kept it close in the WDC is Russell having bad luck at their two best tracks where Hamilton ended up winning. Just that was 50 points in the driver battle, all of which has been overcome by George since then. On just performance George should be leading by 60+ points by now.

Better than what though??? Important context is left out for some reason when that statement is made. I'll get back to that.

I don't see how getting lucky with strategy and team not telling Lewis (despite him asking multiple times) that George was not stopping again, and having an illegal car should be counted to the tally. Lewis was easily faster than George that weekend and showed what happens when Lewis qualifies near or ahead of George. With a strategy that kept his car legal and getting a lucky strategy that was only possible due to his relative lack of pace to other cars, he wasn't looking at any big points that race. He was getting passed by everyone.

Silverstone is balanced out by Lewis' own mechanical DNF in Australia. Also in Silverstone, George's pace once the track got slippery for most of the race had him going backwards immediately (which is how Lewis got first pit priority and got to take and hold the lead of the race).

And again, talking so much about how much better George had done, always leaves out how much worse Lewis has done and therefore leaves out the context required to judge just how much better George has actually done.

Because when you add the context of Lewis' massive slump, it kind of just shows that it's simply the fact that he's ahead of Lewis that makes people think he's been so good.

If Lewis finishes this season 10 points behind George despite having an absolutely abysmal season, why does that mean George's extra 10 points makes his performance amazing?

If Lewis miraculously outscored George by the end of AbuDhabi, would this still have been judged as such an amazing season for George?

It surely wouldn't?

[Bracken]

If Lewis had one or two better qualis, George would only move up one WDC place this year and the teams prospects politically/sponsor wise/optics wise would be looking dim.

So you are pondering if Hamilton had done "one or two better qualis" and how that would have impacted the standings? Mind you, nothing stopped him from performing better in quali. Wouldn't a far more fair and realistic thought experiment be, "what if we count Russell winning Spa, and finishing top 4 at Silverstone"?

The truth is Russell hasn't been a little bit better this year, he's been significantly better. It's 17-5 in quali and 12-6 in the races (where both finish). The only thing that has kept it close in the WDC is Russell having bad luck at their two best tracks where Hamilton ended up winning. Just that was 50 points in the driver battle, all of which has been overcome by George since then. On just performance George should be leading by 60 points by now.

That's it for me, people are wrongly claiming that it's just Lewis' qualifying that has took a hit. In reality, Russell has also outperformed him comprehensively in the races.

[Bracken]

https://x.com/dxbestani/status/18625975 ... h9nZA&s=19

[Cs98]

If Lewis had one or two better qualis, George would only move up one WDC place this year and the teams prospects politically/sponsor wise/optics wise would be looking dim.

So you are pondering if Hamilton had done "one or two better qualis" and how that would have impacted the standings? Mind you, nothing stopped him from performing better in quali. Wouldn't a far more fair and realistic thought experiment be, "what if we count Russell winning Spa, and finishing top 4 at Silverstone"?

The truth is Russell hasn't been a little bit better this year, he's been significantly better. It's 17-5 in quali and 12-6 in the races (where both finish). The only thing that has kept it close in the WDC is Russell having bad luck at their two best tracks where Hamilton ended up winning. Just that was 50 points in the driver battle, all of which has been overcome by George since then. On just performance George should be leading by 60+ points by now.

I don't see how getting lucky with strategy and team not telling Lewis (despite him asking multiple times) that George was not stopping again, and having an illegal car should be counted to the tally. Lewis was easily faster than George that weekend and showed what happens when Lewis qualifies near or ahead of George. With a strategy that kept his car legal he wasn't looking at any big points that race. He was getting passed by everyone.

Silverstone is balanced out by Lewis' own mechanical DNF in Australia.

And again, talking g so much about how much better George had done, always leaves out how much worse Lewis has done and therefore leaves out the context required to judge just how much better George has actually done.

Because when you add the context of Lewis' massive slump, it kind of just shows that it's simply the fact that he's ahead of Lewis that makes people think he's been so good.

If Lewis finishes this season 10 points behind George despite having an absolutely abysmal season, why does that mean George's extra 10 points makes his performance amazing?

If Lewis miraculously outscored George by the end of AbuDhabi, would this still have been judged as such an amazing season?

It surely wouldn't?

It's pointless arguing with someone who puts the failures of their preferred driver down to "being in a slump", and the success of their non-preferred driver down to "getting lucky". George made the strat call, George kept the tyres alive, George kept Hamilton behind on much fresher tyres. Skill, skill, skill, no luck involved. But who knows, maybe Hamilton was "slumping" in the last 5 laps of that race too.

Silverstone is balanced out by Lewis' own mechanical DNF in Australia.

DNFing from P11 is hardly the same as P4.

[GrizzleBoy]

Every time someone tries to disagree they just prove my point.

Ok, so like I said the argument chops and changes to whatever makes George's performance seem more substantial and we are now in the realm of people being accused of arguing in bad faith when they say Lewis has had a large overall performance slump this year in the context of his team mates performance?

So if you say that one of the best qualifiers in the sport has not done well at all in qualifying this year, apparently THAT is the delusional take and it' not worth talking to people who express that view lol.

But then when Lewis himself says he's been slower than hes normally capable of being, that's also used by the same people who just think George is the better driver to tell people to stop making excuses for Lewis.

But then when you mention it in the context of comparing the amount of performance increase or decrease per driver, apparently he's not actually slow at all, hes performing just as well as he did in 2023 and its just that George is just having an amazing season.

George has improved massively and that's why he's now P6 in the WDC and not P8 like last year.

Lewis is driving just as well as last year, and that's why he's now P7 in the WDC and not P3 like last year.

That's apparently the non delusional take and if you disagree, you're arguing in bad faith.

Apparently.

[Bracken]

Every time someone tries to disagree they just prove my point.

Ok, so like I said the argument chops and changes to whatever makes George's performance seem more substantial and we are now in the realm of people being accused of arguing in bad faith when they say Lewis has had a large overall performance slump this year in the context of his team mates performance?

So if you say that one of the best qualifiers in the sport has not done well at all in qualifying this year, apparently THAT is the delusional take not worth talking to people who express that view lol.

But then when Lewis himself says he's been slower than hes normally capable of being, that's also used by the same people who just think George is the better driver to tell people to stop making excuses for Lewis.

But then when you mention it in the context of comparing the amount of performance increase or decrease per driver, apparently he's not actually slow at all, hes performing just as well as he did in 2023 and its just that George is just having an amazing season.

It's quite simply one of three things.

1. George has stepped it up to a level that Lewis just can't match.
2. Lewis has deteriorated considerably.
3. The team are not giving Hamilton the tools to reach his full potential.

[Matt2725]

2023 WDC:
Ham - P3
Rus - P8

2024 WDC:
RUS - P6
Ham - P7

Now, I don't really know about anyone else, but given its still mathematically possible for Geurge to only finish 1 WDC position higher than he did the previous year (if Lewis does miracles), while Lewis has dropped from contesting for P2 down to a realistic P7...

Is it really the case that George has improved so much since last year or is it that Lewis dropped off?

If anyone is honest with themselves, could they truly say that the biggest change has been George's driving ability and not Lewis' dramatic qualifying slump?

If Lewis performed the way he had just one year ago in 2024, would George's performance this year have anyone talking about how ready he is to lead the team?

Is George only really just starting to edge Lewis out points wise in Lewis' worst ever season in F1 when he's being phased out of the team actually that big an achievement?

I think if you're really honest about it, I don't think you could say that it really is.

If Lewis had one or two better qualis, George would only move up one WDC place this year and the teams prospects politically/sponsor wise/optics wise would be looking dim.

Lewis performed similarly both years. George just stepped up big time.

P3 to P7 is "similar performance", and P8 to P6 is a "big time" perfor.ance jump?

You see, this is what I'm trying to get at. The cognitive dissonance is wild.

It either flips from Lewis being a dud to George being on his A-game based on which sounds best for George at the time.

If you call Lewis washed, that means George's P6 this year is diminished.

If you say George is just having bis best ever season this year, you have to deny the huge performance slump Lewis has had since 2023, because closely defeating someone who most people expect to do better doesn't sound good either.

Your premise relies solely on other team's performance compared to Merc being static. That simply isn't the case. McLaren and Ferrari have taken notable steps forward.

The fact Merc to this date have 4 wins this season compared to 0 last year, yet their overall position looks worse should tell you everything.

[PapayaFan481]

We've seen in the past that Lewis can become demotivated and his performance can suffer as a result.

I think he is not enjoying these ground effect cars. Hasn't he said that they do not suit his natural driving style?

We have also seen how different teams' cars have different handling traits. Hopefully the Ferrari is better suited to Lewis' style. Either way the move itself may give him renewed motivation.

Only time will tell!!

[Cs98]

Every time someone tries to disagree they just prove my point.

Not a great sign when you have to argue like this.

That's my point. This is supposed to be George's best ever performance at Merc, but he's only just about beating a team mate on his way to another team, whos having his worst ever season in the sport.

Your point is largely made up of premises that many people don't agree with. The chief among them being that George is "barely beating" Lewis. To me, he is trouncing him. I gave you the numbers before, 12-6 in the races, 17-5 in quali. Points have been made to look closer than they should be based on Spa and Silverstone.

As far as it being the worst season for Lewis, maybe it is, but that's not a fact, that's an opinion. 2011 wasn't great in my book, neither was 2022 against a first year teammate in Lewis' team.

Furthermore you seem to think that comparing WDC position between years is some sort of relevant metric. It's not. It's mostly a function of car performance relative to the competition. This year Merc has been solidly 4th best, last year they finished 2nd in the WCC, so of course that will influence your WDC positions. Getting in the top 5 this year was simply not feasible with their car, even if you add in Spa and Silverstone for George. Arguing as if relative car performance is static makes for an awful argument.

[Luscion]

We've seen in the past that Lewis can become demotivated and his performance can suffer as a result.

I think he is not enjoying these ground effect cars. Hasn't he said that they do not suit his natural driving style?

We have also seen how different teams' cars have different handling traits. Hopefully the Ferrari is better suited to Lewis' style. Either way the move itself may give him renewed motivation.

Only time will tell!!

Verstappen said today he thinks Lewis just isnt motivated this season because he's leaving and not in a title fight. Both Allison and Shov have said they dont suit his driving style, the merc cars specifically. Lewis' driving style requires a strong rear end where he can trash the car around and while the W15 has a more stable rear end than the last two it overheats its rears quickly. Next year should be better, Pirelli are making the tires for next year less fragile so drivers can push (something Ham's been complaining about since the start of the season) and the Ferrari cars dont suffer with what the Mercs do. I'll hold off judgement until next season, if he's still struggling, well then yea...


Toto Wolff

"With Lewis we can see that he just has so much understeer in his car. We have to try to improve that for Saturday. It was a setup and tyre temperature thing. But it was also a bit unfortunate with the traffic. You just have to get the temperature right on the first lap before the fast lap. He wasn't always right there"

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/315684/t ... ssues.html

[Bracken]

I'm not buying a lack of motivation and the million excuses, nobody else gets the benefit of the doubt like that and Lewis should be no different. For whatever reason he has been thoroughly outperformed by Russell and this will be the first ever time Lewis has lost out to a teammate entirely, will Russell go down as better than Lewis?