Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[gruntguru]

muramasa posted a tranlated Interview with Hasegawa on the Autosport Forums:

Hasegawa post session quote from Monday (dotted parts)
http://f1sokuho.mopi...=106447&tt=1170
2017年2月28日

-Shape of oil tank, or specifically speaking the baffles inside the tank, its (the baffle's) arrangement turned out to be inappropriate so that it cannot take in oil properly when under G-force during running. Therefore caused oil pressure drop.

They noticed the issue in filming day running on Sunday already. Applied fix that's possible in impromptu style at venue but wasnt enough due to time restraint, so they were prepared for encountering trouble to a degree. (info in the article)

-It's not a serious issue. However it's located in a place difficult to reach, so you have to detach engine from car in order to repair. It was a combination of new PU plus new car, so normally it only takes 2 hours to exchange the unit, but it ended up taking much longer.

One of the most important functions of the oil tank is as an air separator. Oil returning from the scavenge pumps is highly aerated. Sounds like the problem under sustained high G forces is the aerated oil is not percolating down to the pickup at the bottom of the tank (which feeds the pressure pump) fast enough - resulting in air getting to the pressure pump and loss of pressure to the engine.

[isullivan]

They have to redesign the tank if the baffles inside are inappropriately arranged, I don't see how they can "fix"it without a complete change of tanks, also the pickup for the pressure pump is probably in a weird place too.

[HPD]

Question: Can you review the problems you had in the first two days of preseason?
Yusuke HASEGAWA: "It was very unfortunate that we had several problems related to the engine, the first day we had a problem with the oil tank, we could live with that, but we did not want to damage the engine and that's why we decided to change the tank. Which is a fundamental problem, is just a failure of that system, but to access that area we had to dismantle the engine completely and that cost us almost half a day.It was a pity and it was our responsibility.The second day we had some mechanical problems With the engine.We still do not know the cause of the failure, that's why we sent the unit to Japan to investigate it.It was a mechanical failure.

Q: Do I need to redesign the oil tank?
Y: HASEGAWA: "We preferred to modify it to improve performance, but that's fine. During the season we can improve any part of the engine, so we may also change the oil tank, but for now we can live with it."

Q: Have you reduced engine power in these tests, as a precaution?
Y. HASEGAWA: "We have very little time to run, so sometimes we are not going to full power and in some tests we are checking the car or analyzing some data, so you do not need to go full power all the time."

Q: What are your plans for next week?
Y. HASEGAWA: "We would like to introduce the latest version of the engine and test it as soon as possible, every time we have an engine, we change something, so next week we will have another engine."

Q: Will it be Australia's engine?
Y. HASEGAWA: "Yes, we have to check the racing engine here."

Q: In the presentation of the MCL32, you said that the new concept of engine did not pose a risk from the point of view of reliability. Judging by what has been seen on the track, the situation has turned out to be different. What happened?
Y. HASEGAWA: "Nobody could say that we are confident, but we have tried to do our work as well as possible. From the point of view of 'spec' - a power unit - we are not worried, but we do not know what is happening."

Q: New chassis, new engine concept, but in the presentation it seemed like everything was going to be perfect from the start. Do you think they have underestimated the change of 2017?
Y. HASEGAWA: "We have introduced a new system and it is clear that it is not yet mature, so we need more time to prepare and be ready for the first race." I do not think we have underestimated it. And Tuesday are our functional errors, not a bug of the whole. We have to be prepared. "

Q: How does the current situation compare with the situation in 2016? Eric Boullier made a statement in the presentation where he had doubts about his engine.
Y. HASEGAWA: "I think our relationship - with McLaren is strengthening - we connect a lot more, I can not compare it to 2015 because I was not, but we are a team, we act as a team, but we are not a single company. He has his responsibilities and we have to worry about ours. I do not think Eric is unfair. "

Q: How many engines do you have in Barcelona?
Y. HASEGAWA: "We do not say that, but we have enough for training."

Q: The engine homologation date was yesterday.
Y. HASEGAWA: "Yes, I am not sure, and in fact I am very confused with the regulation of the homologation and the tokens, because as we do not have tokens, although we apply some homologation we have the possibility to change the engine. FIA.Each engine has to be homologated, but between the tests and the race you can make improvements because we do not have tokens. "

Q: It would be necessary to plead reliability reasons, I understand.
Y. HASEGAWA: "Yes, I think so. From what I understand, we can improve anywhere."

Q: How do you see the other engines?
Y. HASEGAWA: "I'm not sure I have no idea, because in the tests the teams run in different conditions Fuel, tires ... They can use less rake, more camber ... It's very difficult to know. Is still very strong.When it comes to doing test they always do a great job.There is no doubt. "

Q: Do not you think that Honda is at a disadvantage with Mercedes, because they develop their engine with three teams and you only with one?
Y. HASEGAWA: "That has its pros and cons, because you have many opportunities to test the engine but at the same time you have to allocate your resources to operate with three teams."

Q: He said they wanted to catch Mercedes.
Y. HASEGAWA: "I said that we would like to take Mercedes, but the Mercedes of 2016. It's the goal we set ourselves, we want to catch them, but I do not know how much they will have won this season. Motor will overcome them ".

Q: Alonso was disappointed in his first press conference.
Y. HASEGAWA: "Yes, I am.

Link:http://soymotor.com/articulos/hasegawa- ... uro-930399

Sorry for the translation the page is spanish

[loner]

seems like 2016 test where the test engines weren't the one which raced in Australia.

[makecry]

Ted says rumors of Illmor helping Honda out?

Well that's new.

[FW17]

Ted says rumors of Illmor helping Honda out?

Well that's new.

Not sure when his contract period ended with Renault but was announced last month during the launch of the car. Quiet sure they would have had some cooling off period before he could take another assignment in F1.

[ESPImperium]

Speculation that McLaren want to ditch Honda before the season starts. I can firmly say this story is fabricated as it wouldn't be feasible now.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/02/28/fo ... 76700.html

[BosF1]

Speculation that McLaren want to ditch Honda before the season starts. I can firmly say this story is fabricated as it wouldn't be feasible now.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/02/28/fo ... 76700.html

[Thunder]

Gotta love the spanish Media.

[namao]

Gotta love the spanish Media.

That's not the spanish media. That's a spanish tabloid.

[GoranF1]

https://twitter.com/f1talks/status/836913065358733312

[ziggy]

EDIT: Seems like Porsche ran into same problems. Engine Oil Sump Test Rig:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

With such system you are limited to 1g acceleration. Probably F1 cars reach that while pulling into the pits.

If you need the direction and the magnitude of the resultant force, you can't even achieve 1G acceleration on this rig. OTOH the "direction" of a 1G acceleration is only 45* to the vertical and a rig like this can simulate the "direction" of any lateral G force you care to name as long as it can tilt from 0* - 90* from the usual position.

What I wanted to say is that while you can simulate certain forces, the results are not the same. In the real track case the engine isn't tilted (or it is the same as the car) while the one on the rig is being tilted heavily. And as you said, one doesen't get the same result with tilting engine 45 degrees "forward" or in the real case brake with a force of 1G. The fluids (oil in this case) will behave differently.

ALO said he had to brake early to get around the problem, so I assume the (oil pickup?) problem was during the acceleration phase.

[mclaren111]

Gotta love the spanish Media.

"Fake News"

[wuzak]

Doesn't sound too healthy here

https://twitter.com/publogic/status/836887591966420994

[PlatinumZealot]

Well they have 2 Years of On Track experience. They should now how to Baffle their Oiltank. Their Engine worked during heavy breaking for the last 2 Years.....

The problem is that they very well could have a Mercedes style oil tank, which has a crescent moon shape. Andy Cowell noted that this shape was a bitch to get right. Except Merdes had the car or engine on a shaker rig for many months to evaluate it. Because of the rush with marriage of car and engine I can bet that the car engine combo had a very limited time on the shaker rig. It is both a McLaren and Honda problem. They are a works team they should have done better finding these problems together.

Anyway, my take on this engine. I am a bit late to the party.

The engine layout is more or less the same.
Remember the old Honda engine was not far off from the Mercedes in the layout.

We see the intake pipe is still at the front of the engine. New Mercedes style air plenum. Charge pipe routing not clear at this time.

They somehow still manage a cooling radiator duct atop the engine through the same rool hoop intake. How they do this is a mystery.

Waste gate pipe out and under the suspension.

New aerodynamic shielding over the engine.