2025 McLaren F1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

I am pro both our drivers, slightly favouring Oscar and I think yesterday proved a few unsurprising things.

Oscar is slightly slower than Lando overall but generally more efficient at nailing his final qualifying in a tricky car.
The McLaren still has the best race pace in clean air generally, especially in hot conditions.
Overtaking is very hard.
Oscar is getting stressed despite his previous calm demeanour.
Yesterday should be seen positively by all at McLaren as it changes nothing on the big picture - Max gained 5 points on Oscar, needs 10 per weekend.
It looks like the gloves will come off now or very soon between our two drivers.
Maybe people will stop whining about a boring season (but I doubt it).

This is a fair assessment. Norris seems to have a higher ceiling at the moment (not by much) but struggles mentally to always deliver at the maximum. Norris also seems to be worse at overtaking, Piastri showed some great unexpected overtakes. Piastri seems to be calm on the outside but he is obviously quite worried about the championship and even slight issues look big when you are that focused. The car looks good as well. If Norris started in P2 he would have a good chance to win the race.

With regards of gloves coming off. I think we'll see that driver ahead will no longer give undercut opportunity to the driver behind, even if it slightly undermines his strategy. It's just too risky and they will no longer worry about the other drivers overtaking them. This is bad for the team results but will be an interesting dynamic to see in the next races.

[FittingMechanics]

Reminder: The race stewards looked at the Norris-Piastri incident and rapidly decided to do nothing, which tells me that they saw it as a racing incident. I am not sure why Oscar spent most of the race stewing over the outcome. His car was fine, and he was quick all race.

Was he? He only could catch Verstappen and Norris when they were in traffic. I am not sure why, but Oscar was missing a lot of pace.
The stewards would surely have taken action in a situation between two teams. This is a usual "give the position back" situation. But as it is within one team it is the issue of the team. I think they did the right thing as Oscar would have been just a roadblock to Lando, he lost quite strongly in the first laps.

No way anyone gets a penalty for that type of situation. Oscar continued on his way, Lando was alongside, there was slight contact and it was lap 1.

You don't get a penalty for having tires bump into each other. Oscar was not forced off the road, he did not crash and he was not damaged. It would be quite different if Norris bumped Oscar into the wall or onto grass/gravel.

[Badger]

Reminder: The race stewards looked at the Norris-Piastri incident and rapidly decided to do nothing, which tells me that they saw it as a racing incident. I am not sure why Oscar spent most of the race stewing over the outcome. His car was fine, and he was quick all race.

Was he? He only could catch Verstappen and Norris when they were in traffic. I am not sure why, but Oscar was missing a lot of pace.
The stewards would surely have taken action in a situation between two teams. This is a usual "give the position back" situation. But as it is within one team it is the issue of the team. I think they did the right thing as Oscar would have been just a roadblock to Lando, he lost quite strongly in the first laps.

It was the same last year, Oscar didn’t have the dominant pace of Lando at all, he was not gaining anything on Verstappen at the end of the race. This year he was only gaining very marginally when both were in free air traffic despite having fresher tyres and clearly Lando having more pace. Not his track for whatever reason.

The stewards shouldn’t consider the teammate factor and I doubt they did here. This wasn’t a big incident by any means, Lando was well up the inside long before the wheel-banging.

[FittingMechanics]

When did someone get a penalty for wheel banging if both cars continued on their way and no one was forced off track? I'm genuinely asking.

[SilviuAgo]

After seeing so many comments, I will only put this here. Enjoy @allMcLarenfans


And a picture with the 2025 Drivers World Champion.

[basti313]

When did someone get a penalty for wheel banging if both cars continued on their way and no one was forced off track? I'm genuinely asking.

I think there was an example in the US GP last year, but the rule is very new as it is only since 2022 in the driving standards:
“If a driver gains or maintains a position by virtue of abnormal movement, contact, or line choice that disadvantages a competitor, the stewards may instruct the team to give the position back even if no track limits are violated.”
I think the example here ticks all the boxes...Lando misjudged the distance (as he said himself), slightly lost control and slid into Pia. Without the touch Pia would not have lost this position.

[mwillems]

A quick look at the telemetry:
Verstappen didn't hit the brakes suddenly, but took a more casual entry into the turn and got a better exit than everyone, including Russell.

Max clearly had a different way of getting through the corner without sacrificing time. He didn't take the same approach on lap two however. So perhaps he did this on purpose, or perhaps this was his approach with colder tyres and a lot a cars around and a desire not to slide. I don't think there was intent, he seems to have been managing both cars behind to ensure he had no issues , since his line was designed to get a better exit than anyone, it would have protected his position whilst ensuring Oscar and Lando managed out of a position to attack.

Great starts by both Drivers but Lando was fortunate that he lucked into a position and that his damage wasn't worse and he didn't cause a puncture to anyone.

But honestly it is all to be expected. This is the biggest prize on the line, both drivers will be understandably getting very tense now and will want to take any opportunities they can. Oscar will now have more (fair) elbows with Lando and I think you'll see the team try to intervene less.

May the best man win.

[Ben1980]

While elbows may be out, id still expect Landos out more than Oscars. Oscar doing something to risk his points damages him more. Lando is in that catch up phase. If he tries and fails, it was worth the try.

[erikejw]

It might be early yes.

Sometimes you just know in your heart that you are the nr2 at the team. Hearing Oscars voice, completely demotivated. Feeling wronged.

We dont know what was said after Monza and what was agreed. It is 100% clear Oscar feels he was let down.

Constructor celebration on the podium without him speaks volumes.

Compare with Alonso 2007.

And its fair in a way. Lando is British, he's the home favourite. Most personal is British.
Everybody has their favourites.

Look at Zak at winning photos when Oscar wins. He doesn't look happy. If you don't feel the full support from the team principal then you need to refind it there or somewhere else.
The development will marginally go the other drivers way.

Hamilton had to fight that in Mercedes. All those small signals that goes against you.
He fought it through, with dedication and strong mentality and with his WDC backing him.

DC said the same. He later found out Mika got the best engines.

I don't see Oscar having that personal quality to rally the team behind him. He's mentally strong.

Since Monza he's been mentally off.
He seemed not interested in racing yesterday.
Azerbajdzjan was a disaster.

Something broke there.

Even if he turns around this season and wins he'll need to see full support next year, in development, TP, decisions.

If trust is broken it's hard to regain.

That is what I see.
Only time will tell.

Verstappen to Mercedes 2027 and Piastri to Red bull 2027? Unless McLaren dominates next year. Any thoughts.

Why would we debate that this early? I think Oscar is a smart young chap and knows where he is best off. He is loved, he is on the rise, and is at a team still in upward trajectory.

I think Lando's move, while clumsy, was much less controversial than I expected when I got to see it in the morning (I watched on a live timing watch-along). Oscar did well to quell the media frenzy afterwards by saying he wanted to look at the replays before commenting further, and that proved well-founded. Even the stewards got it right this time, after shockers like the Oscar Silverstone penalty.

We can debate ad nauseam about McLaren management's interpretation of the so called papaya rules (very sketchy IMHO) but there was only one loser in the top 4 drivers at Silverstone, and it wasn't Oscar. Max needed to take an axe to Oscar's WDC lead and he got back 5, not 10 points. George drove a great race and scored a surprise win for M-B. Lando established himself as (this time around) the quicker McLaren driver, and Oscar comes away from a slump with a little bit of redemption being competitive around a street circuit he probably doesn't like.

[mwillems]

Yeah but Oscars view of what happened meant he was likely thinking that Lando muscled him, whereas Lando understeered into Oscar because he hit Max.
If he thought that Lando did it on purpose or was being too aggressive with Oscar then fair enough. Or perhaps he saw it and thought it was manufactured so he would understeer into Oscar, but that is going well into conspiracy theory territory.

Lando was playing bumper cars with Max and Oscar losing the place was unfortunately the collateral damage. But this is standard turn 1 fare and luck is part of the season, same way that Oscar was lucky that Lando had a DNF to put him ahead.

You just need to suck it up as Lando has. I highly doubt Oscar will dwell on this, other than more than ever he knows this is crunch time for the title and he'll be ready for the fight and undoubtedly Oscar will go for it. Brazil will be fairly even matched I think, between the cars and drivers.

Knowing Lando, will he take a risk too far and destroy his championship hopes? He's faster than Oscar, but the biggest risk to Lando is Lando in the next 6 races. This is exactly the type of situation where Lando has screwed himself. If he wins it now, he deserves it.

[FittingMechanics]

People are definitely reading too much into it. When you try to decipher Zak Brown body language you are probably just feeding into your bias.

I don't think there is any bias toward Norris. If there was why would they make him switch back in Hungary 2024? Oscar was not a race winner, he was not in the hunt for the championship and he had no pace compared to Norris in that race. Yet they practically blackmailed Norris to let Oscar through. Rightly so as well because he got through because Oscar gave Lando priority pitstop to defend against undercut threat from behind.

What I think we are seeing is that Oscar getting unsettled. He knows he has a realistic chance of a championship and it is starting to affect him. Same thing is happening to Norris as well. They are both green in this and maybe not the cutthroat F1 driver they should be. We'll see if they will grow into it or not.

Because it is so close he is trying to extract every point he can, even going so far to ask team to switch the cars because he got a penalty in Silverstone? Norris did nothing to him there and Oscar was on the radio. It's just the nature of the drivers and slight problem of the team trying to be fair to each of them.

[Badger]

People are definitely reading too much into it. When you try to decipher Zak Brown body language you are probably just feeding into your bias.

I don't think there is any bias toward Norris. If there was why would they make him switch back in Hungary 2024? Oscar was not a race winner, he was not in the hunt for the championship and he had no pace compared to Norris in that race. Yet they practically blackmailed Norris to let Oscar through. Rightly so as well because he got through because Oscar gave Lando priority pitstop to defend against undercut threat from behind.

What I think we are seeing is that Oscar getting unsettled. He knows he has a realistic chance of a championship and it is starting to affect him. Same thing is happening to Norris as well. They are both green in this and maybe not the cutthroat F1 driver they should be. We'll see if they will grow into it or not.

Because it is so close he is trying to extract every point he can, even going so far to ask team to switch the cars because he got a penalty in Silverstone? Norris did nothing to him there and Oscar was on the radio. It's just the nature of the drivers and slight problem of the team trying to be fair to each of them.

I think Oscar saw this as a particularly important race for him, especially after quali. We are getting to a point now where if Oscar extends his lead, even by just a few points, it makes it exponentially harder for Lando to catch him in the few remaining races. This has also historically been a Lando track, so it would have been a big blow psychologically to Lando if Oscar had extended his lead here. Instead Lando continues his momentum of cutting down the gap.

[FittingMechanics]

I think Oscar saw this as a particularly important race for him, especially after quali. We are getting to a point now where if Oscar extends his lead, even by just a few points, it makes it exponentially harder for Lando to catch him in the few remaining races. This has also historically been a Lando track, so it would have been a big blow psychologically to Lando if Oscar had extended his lead here. Instead Lando continues his momentum of cutting down the gap.

Yeah. I mean I understand him in the race, he doesn't really see all the angles, he only knows Lando barged into him. I'm sure when he looks at it he will see that Lando was alongside and that the contact was accidental, because Verstappen slowed down a little bit more than Norris expected.

What should worry Oscar more is that he didn't have the pace of Norris in that race. Norris was running in dirty air for most of the race and Oscar couldn't catch him.

[basti313]

Yeah but Oscars view of what happened meant he was likely thinking that Lando muscled him, whereas Lando understeered into Oscar because he hit Max.

Why such a strange description. Reading the last posts, I feel like some have not reviewed the scene, but are just writing about their feelings.
There was no "likely thinking", Lando REALLY muscled Oscar: Lando took a dive into T1, where Oscar already took a very wide line. Instead of keeping it tight and securing his place, Oscar opened the steering on the exit of T1 to give Lando space. He took a very strange entry into T3 clearing up as much room for Lando as possible. If you look at the onboard, when they touched this was a full car width of Verstappen to the right, fully off the line.
I think Oscar had a very strange perception of what will happen in these corners. Driving side by side carefully with his teammate alongside, flying on Mango clouds...

I don't think there is any bias toward Norris.

Yes. Webber knows this and can explain to Oscar what a 1B driver is.

What I think we are seeing is that Oscar getting unsettled. He knows he has a realistic chance of a championship and it is starting to affect him.

My bet is still that he will manage to bottle it like Webber did. I mentioned this several races ago already.

Same thing is happening to Norris as well. They are both green in this and maybe not the cutthroat F1 driver they should be. We'll see if they will grow into it or not.

At least Lando seems to understand, that he will not win the WDC sitting on a Mango cloud.

Yeah. I mean I understand him in the race, he doesn't really see all the angles, he only knows Lando barged into him. I'm sure when he looks at it he will see that Lando was alongside and that the contact was accidental, because Verstappen slowed down a little bit more than Norris expected.

I do not think he will and should. If you look at the details you see that he obviously left extra space for Lando twice before Lando barged him. I think this is the point he was complaining about.

What should worry Oscar more is that he didn't have the pace of Norris in that race. Norris was running in dirty air for most of the race and Oscar couldn't catch him.

Yes. If you remove the DNFs, Lando had a better season which is down to his pace. I still think Oscar is much better in wheel-to-wheel racing (not even mentioning the clumsy bumping here). Most of the season he was not allowed to use it, he chose not to use it here and close the door on Lando. Might be a defining error.

[FittingMechanics]

Not sure I agree that there is such a big difference in the way they treat each other. Oscar had his elbows out as well. He also tried some sketchy moves that luckily didn't result in a crash. I also don't agree that he was not allowed to use it here.

Oscar left some space, yes, that is normal. Could you point to a situation where Norris didn't leave a similar space?