2025 McLaren F1 Team

[basti313]

Not sure I agree that there is such a big difference in the way they treat each other. Oscar had his elbows out as well.

I am speaking about this race, not other races. I think Lando had a completely different approach to T1 here than Oscar. He had his elbow in as much as he could, while Lando had his elbow out.

I also don't agree that he was not allowed to use it here.

That is not what I said.

Oscar left some space, yes, that is normal.

No. I do not think it is normal to leave that much space. Again, he took a very strange line into T3 and was two car widths right of Verstappen. Looked not normal, but deliberate to me.

[mwillems]

Yeah but Oscars view of what happened meant he was likely thinking that Lando muscled him, whereas Lando understeered into Oscar because he hit Max.

Why such a strange description. Reading the last posts, I feel like some have not reviewed the scene, but are just writing about their feelings.
There was no "likely thinking", Lando REALLY muscled Oscar: Lando took a dive into T1, where Oscar already took a very wide line. Instead of keeping it tight and securing his place, Oscar opened the steering on the exit of T1 to give Lando space. He took a very strange entry into T3 clearing up as much room for Lando as possible. If you look at the onboard, when they touched this was a full car width of Verstappen to the right, fully off the line.
I think Oscar had a very strange perception of what will happen in these corners. Driving side by side carefully with his teammate alongside, flying on Mango clouds...

This is just as Lando hits Max as he was carrying too much speed. Oscar is muscling Lando - fairly and quite gently NOT the other way round, Lando is taking a sensible inside line and was careful with everything but his speed. The front wheels of the Mclarens are so close. As soon as Lando's wing goes under the Bull he slides out. His wheel was the opposite direction of Oscar and when he hits Max he tries to control the slide. He has to control the slide and the only way it was going was a controlled slide to Oscar, but it's either that or spin. Likely he didn't get to think, but it's every man for himself.

So no, he did not muscle Oscar and come what may he was going to hit Oscar when he hit Max. Lndo showed no aggression to Oscar at all, the aggression to defend came from Oscar. Clumsy but totally accidental from Lando. Its his fault but a racing incident.

No Mango or Papaya clouds


Full footage from Anthony Davidson here

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Let's not forget, FOM decides when to broadcast the driver comms.

For all we know all of Oscar's comments happened within the first couple of laps and then he was done with it.

[erikejw]

Fair points


[
quote=mwillems post_id=1304453 time=1759750515 user_id=36048]
Yeah but Oscars view of what happened meant he was likely thinking that Lando muscled him, whereas Lando understeered into Oscar because he hit Max.
If he thought that Lando did it on purpose or was being too aggressive with Oscar then fair enough. Or perhaps he saw it and thought it was manufactured so he would understeer into Oscar, but that is going well into conspiracy theory territory.

Lando was playing bumper cars with Max and Oscar losing the place was unfortunately the collateral damage. But this is standard turn 1 fare and luck is part of the season, same way that Oscar was lucky that Lando had a DNF to put him ahead.

You just need to suck it up as Lando has. I highly doubt Oscar will dwell on this, other than more than ever he knows this is crunch time for the title and he'll be ready for the fight and undoubtedly Oscar will go for it. Brazil will be fairly even matched I think, between the cars and drivers.

Knowing Lando, will he take a risk too far and destroy his championship hopes? He's faster than Oscar, but the biggest risk to Lando is Lando in the next 6 races. This is exactly the type of situation where Lando has screwed himself. If he wins it now, he deserves it.
[/quote]

[mwillems]

Let's not forget, FOM decides when to broadcast the driver comms.

For all we know all of Oscar's comments happened within the first couple of laps and then he was done with it.

Have you heard Max? He's a dog with a bone, a very angry dog lol. Just think about the points he lost ramming Russell earlier this season. That could be costly.

Nothing wrong with being upset or unhappy even if someone in the forum decides to create an arbitrary baseline of what is acceptable in 1 incident against a backdrop of way more from the likes of Max or George.

[BMMR61]

I think we are seeing Oscar looking at the big prize and feeling the pressure from that. His performances of late have been slightly off where he was earlier. This is just my conjecture and I could be reading more into it, but it isn't unreasonable that a mask of unflappability has slipped a little - no disgrace there. Counter to that is that Oscar has generally not been quite as fast as Lando on street circuits but is often slightly quicker on the faster flowing tracks. So expect Oscar to have his days going forward, every time he gains points on Lando will make it tough for Lando to win the title. Lando is almost at the point where he needs to beat Oscar every race. Sprint races are almost insignificant as they tend to yield single point differentials. Sounds easy for Oscar - hell no, but he could do with a win. Lando for his part is handling it quite well given the pressure of needing to win every time.

[gshevlin]

There are way too many people flying around the room shedding feathers over events in the race.
Lando cannot win by finishing behind Oscar in the remaining races, so he did what any competitive driver would do, he got his elbows out and muscled past his main rival at the start. No car was forced out of the race, there was only damage to Lando's endplate, and Oscar only lost a small number of points out of his lead, because Lando was unable to get past Max Verstappen in the last half of the race.
In overall terms, luck is still going Oscar's way. He could have had his lead almost eliminated in Baku, but Lando only scored a few points.
Oscar is rattled, he scored zero points in Baku because he made 3 mistakes in 2 days that weekend, and he is becoming slightly paranoid, as I would expect.
He can complain and sulk, but McLaren is not going to change the rules at this stage.

[Macklaren]

The same thing happened last year -- Oscar seemed to drop off after the summer break last year, just as Lando was rising to challenge Max. I wonder if recent form has nothing to do with the title but just track suitability to driving style

[FittingMechanics]

One thing I forgot is that Norris was sick in Singapore. Quite a bad showing from Piastri in the race.

But I'm sure he will bounce back. I want the team to win.

[Ashwinv16]

I am going to be the first one to say this Boldy. Given the situation where Norris is closer to Piastri. McLaren's higher ups will favor for Norris to win the championship. Everyone knows this will happen bu no one want to admit it. If i am running Mclaren, I for one would make sure Norris wins. Piastri has gotten lucky cause this years car is suited to Piastri in qualifying while Norris has been able to get better in the race but the car struggles massively in dirty air. However with Red Bull catching up, the set-up will be moving towards Norris liking. Honestly if Norris stops bottling Qualifying its his championship to lose.

Do you think.its possible that those that "dont admit it" actually just don't think that will happen?

If you're looking for a TP that would do that then I suspect you have somewhat misjudged Stella. I find the chances absolutely miniscule that Stella would deliberately hinder one drivers chances and then lie about it.

It's the exact opposite of who this guy is.

Stella doesn't own Mclaren. You about to see what rally happened during the 2--7 season at McLaren pretty much happen again.

[Ben1980]

Im really staggered by the amount of people who think there is an agenda against Oscar within Mclaren.

All because of one lap in Australia in changeable conditions, giving a tow in Monza and the swap, its bizarre.

[mwillems]

I am going to be the first one to say this Boldy. Given the situation where Norris is closer to Piastri. McLaren's higher ups will favor for Norris to win the championship. Everyone knows this will happen bu no one want to admit it. If i am running Mclaren, I for one would make sure Norris wins. Piastri has gotten lucky cause this years car is suited to Piastri in qualifying while Norris has been able to get better in the race but the car struggles massively in dirty air. However with Red Bull catching up, the set-up will be moving towards Norris liking. Honestly if Norris stops bottling Qualifying its his championship to lose.

Do you think.its possible that those that "dont admit it" actually just don't think that will happen?

If you're looking for a TP that would do that then I suspect you have somewhat misjudged Stella. I find the chances absolutely miniscule that Stella would deliberately hinder one drivers chances and then lie about it.

It's the exact opposite of who this guy is.

Stella doesn't own Mclaren. You about to see what rally happened during the 2--7 season at McLaren pretty much happen again.

And Mclaren dont own Stella, its extremely unlikely he'd compromise his principles. He's explained to the drivers how they will be equal, you really think hed lie to the fans and the drivers after making such a big deal of equal treatment?

[gibells]

https://i.ibb.co/4RDVHVWb/Lando-Oscar-Tap.png

This is just as Lando hits Max as he was carrying too much speed. Oscar is muscling Lando - fairly and quite gently NOT the other way round, Lando is taking a sensible inside line and was careful with everything but his speed. The front wheels of the Mclarens are so close. As soon as Lando's wing goes under the Bull he slides out. His wheel was the opposite direction of Oscar and when he hits Max he tries to control the slide. He has to control the slide and the only way it was going was a controlled slide to Oscar, but it's either that or spin. Likely he didn't get to think, but it's every man for himself.

So no, he did not muscle Oscar and come what may he was going to hit Oscar when he hit Max. Lndo showed no aggression to Oscar at all, the aggression to defend came from Oscar. Clumsy but totally accidental from Lando. Its his fault but a racing incident.

...
[/quote]

Yeah I agree. And if you look at the possible outcome if Lando hadn't bumped into him, could Oscar have been looking to go around the outside of Max?

[Ashwinv16]

Do you think.its possible that those that "dont admit it" actually just don't think that will happen?

If you're looking for a TP that would do that then I suspect you have somewhat misjudged Stella. I find the chances absolutely miniscule that Stella would deliberately hinder one drivers chances and then lie about it.

It's the exact opposite of who this guy is.

Stella doesn't own Mclaren. You about to see what rally happened during the 2--7 season at McLaren pretty much happen again.

And Mclaren dont own Stella, its extremely unlikely he'd compromise his principles. He's explained to the drivers how they will be equal, you really think hed lie to the fans and the drivers after making such a big deal of equal treatment?

This was said in 2007 as well until it fell apart once the upgrades starting favoring Lewis looser rear end style and until the Hungary incident after which things started to be more equal in a bid to keep Alonso but it was too late (costing them the constructors in 2008). (Although Fernando threw his chance of winning the championship by crashing out in Fiji and same for Lewis in China)

Starting in Singapore(Maybe even Baku but not sure) changes have been made to suit the car Norris better(set-up wise so no upgrades but mostly ballast tuning and rear wing angles (TO BOTH CARS EVEN IF PAISTRI DOESNT WANT THE SET-UP, cause they have to go in that direction to mitigate improvements made by others, will make the car harder to drive but will keep the tyres alive) but Norris Bottled Qualifying (mostly also due to the lack of front end bite which is track specific and that affects Norris more) which meant he got stuck behind Verstappen. The truer picture will be seen at Austin where there will be a difference between Norris and Piastiri. Norris knows this which is why he was way more aggressive at the start knowing he will be faster and well he was.

Honestly even I hope this isn't the case but I found out it isn't and well everyone will too. The Narrative will be "Norris found something inside him in the last few races" to explain the larger gap between the two teammates compared to the previous races, although until Qatar there aren't tracks left where Norris front end limitation will be pronounced. And even if Qualifying goes bad, the gaps going to be big enough that Norris will just Overtake Piastri in the race.

[Badger]

Stella doesn't own Mclaren. You about to see what rally happened during the 2--7 season at McLaren pretty much happen again.

And Mclaren dont own Stella, its extremely unlikely he'd compromise his principles. He's explained to the drivers how they will be equal, you really think hed lie to the fans and the drivers after making such a big deal of equal treatment?

This was said in 2007 as well until it fell apart once the upgrades starting favoring Lewis looser rear end style and until the Hungary incident after which things started to be more equal in a bid to keep Alonso but it was too late (costing them the constructors in 2008). (Although Fernando threw his chance of winning the championship by crashing out in Fiji and same for Lewis in China)

Starting in Singapore(Maybe even Baku but not sure) changes have been made to suit the car Norris better(set-up wise so no upgrades but mostly ballast tuning and rear wing angles (TO BOTH CARS EVEN IF PAISTRI DOESNT WANT THE SET-UP, cause they have to go in that direction to mitigate improvements made by others, will make the car harder to drive but will keep the tyres alive) but Norris Bottled Qualifying (mostly also due to the lack of front end bite which is track specific and that affects Norris more) which meant he got stuck behind Verstappen. The truer picture will be seen at Austin where there will be a difference between Norris and Piastiri. Norris knows this which is why he was way more aggressive at the start knowing he will be faster and well he was.

Honestly even I hope this isn't the case but I found out it isn't and well everyone will too. The Narrative will be "Norris found something inside him in the last few races" to explain the larger gap between the two teammates compared to the previous races, although until Qatar there aren't tracks left where Norris front end limitation will be pronounced. And even if Qualifying goes bad, the gaps going to be big enough that Norris will just Overtake Piastri in the race.

I have good news for you, it isn’t the case. Literally nothing you said is believable or verifiable beyond “I know what’s up, trust me bro”.