2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[FNTC]

[diffuser]

You make it sound like Honda has already found the way to improved combustion. When I read that article, the impression I got was that was the plan, it's where they hope to be.

Yes, these comments contain a degree of hope. But it's not just hope. How so?
They will constantly experiment with new versions to create the design and environment that works best with the characteristics of this fuel. They will analyze each new version, think about how to correct its shortcomings, and create new designs according to findings. And each time, they will build upon it, making the design work best with this fuel. So it's not hope. Each of these trials will give them something, and in the end, they will find out what works and what doesn't. This is a time-consuming process, but it's inevitable.
Hope, on the other hand, is more like what I did in one of my previous comments. That is, they noticed that in a previous engine formula, the ignition was very good at a certain RPM range, and the torque and power increased significantly. If they encounter something similar early on, they can with it and come with a very competitive engine. Or it will take them a long time to find the best iteration.

Let's not confuse hope with fact. This is where you end up with a lot of people shiiting on Honda. They take hope as fact and if hope doesn't turn into fact, they become upset and say stuff like "Honda can't be trusted". Yes they are working to that end but god knows how many iteration of tests they need to perform to find the holy grail. There is no guarantee.

The rainbow is beautiful until you get to the end of it and there is no a pot of gold, just worms.

[ispano6]

There must be some fundamental problems with the concept and architecture of the 2026 engine that are preventing both normal operation and further development.

I think that after the winter testing, Honda basically started creating and developing the 2027 engine almost from zero, and that they have only used one ADUO upgrade this year, mainly related to combustion, as a test bed. I think we'll find out about this during the 2026 winter break.

I don't think they'll be fully prepared for 2027 either, because the other manufacturers will also improve, while Honda will almost be starting from the start. Perhaps by mid-2027 they could be in a position where they're only around 15 hp behind, at which point they could at least fight, but even that would be an optimistic scenario.

I don't think that, after constantly improving essentially the same V6 bottom end since 2017, there was much more they could have improved going into 2026.

The rule change fundamentally affected combustion. The outlawing of cylinder-pressure sensors, the radical change in fuel, the 16:1 maximum compression ratio, and the reduced fuel flow all effectively erased many of the combustion-side advantages that Honda and the other manufacturers had been developing prior to 2026.

The 2026 regulations were a major reset of the combustion side of the ICE, rather than simply another evolution of the existing V6.

The FIA did change where the MGU-K connects to the crankshaft. but I still see the combustion being where all the gains will come from on the ICE side.

The elimination of the MGU-H arguably hurt Honda the most, as it was also their strong suit. Although no one ever mentions it, the MGUH removal for the 50:50 split is arguably the biggest regression of this formula as the MGUK isn't capable of making up for the loss of the MGUH's contributions.

Honda is dealing with abnormal combustion right now. They have to figure this out with their new fuel partner.

[etusch]

Let's not confuse hope with fact. This is where you end up with a lot of people shiiting on Honda. They take hope as fact and if hope doesn't turn into fact, they become upset and say stuff like "Honda can't be trusted". Yes they are working to that end but god knows how many iteration of tests they need to perform to find the holy grail. There is no guarantee.

The rainbow is beautiful until you get to the end of it and there is no a pot of gold, just worms.

I don't want to make this too long, but if you noticed, I mentioned that shortening the timeframe is a hope, but I also stated that improvements will be made in the end as a result. The Japanese may not be very good at inventing things, but they are good at improving something and making it the best it can be. That's what happened with the last engine formula.

[diffuser]

Let's not confuse hope with fact. This is where you end up with a lot of people shiiting on Honda. They take hope as fact and if hope doesn't turn into fact, they become upset and say stuff like "Honda can't be trusted". Yes they are working to that end but god knows how many iteration of tests they need to perform to find the holy grail. There is no guarantee.

The rainbow is beautiful until you get to the end of it and there is no a pot of gold, just worms.

I don't want to make this too long, but if you noticed, I mentioned that shortening the timeframe is a hope, but I also stated that improvements will be made in the end as a result. The Japanese may not be very good at inventing things, but they are good at improving something and making it the best it can be. That's what happened with the last engine formula.

agreed, there will be improvements.

[mzso]

hmmm. nevermind, as soon as i sent that reply it started working right again.

There was no need to log in. only visiting that domain.

[diffuser]

There must be some fundamental problems with the concept and architecture of the 2026 engine that are preventing both normal operation and further development.

I think that after the winter testing, Honda basically started creating and developing the 2027 engine almost from zero, and that they have only used one ADUO upgrade this year, mainly related to combustion, as a test bed. I think we'll find out about this during the 2026 winter break.

I don't think they'll be fully prepared for 2027 either, because the other manufacturers will also improve, while Honda will almost be starting from the start. Perhaps by mid-2027 they could be in a position where they're only around 15 hp behind, at which point they could at least fight, but even that would be an optimistic scenario.

I don't think that, after constantly improving essentially the same V6 bottom end since 2017, there was much more they could have improved going into 2026.

The rule change fundamentally affected combustion. The outlawing of cylinder-pressure sensors, the radical change in fuel, the 16:1 maximum compression ratio, and the reduced fuel flow all effectively erased many of the combustion-side advantages that Honda and the other manufacturers had been developing prior to 2026.

The 2026 regulations were a major reset of the combustion side of the ICE, rather than simply another evolution of the existing V6.

The FIA did change where the MGU-K connects to the crankshaft. but I still see the combustion being where all the gains will come from on the ICE side.

The elimination of the MGU-H arguably hurt Honda the most, as it was also their strong suit. Although no one ever mentions it, the MGUH removal for the 50:50 split is arguably the biggest regression of this formula as the MGUK isn't capable of making up for the loss of the MGUH's contributions.

Honda is dealing with abnormal combustion right now. They have to figure this out with their new fuel partner.

Funny, I got the feeling we talked it to death.

[sn809]

The rainbow is beautiful until you get to the end of it and there is no a pot of gold, just worms.

..................... The Japanese may not be very good at inventing things, but they are good at improving something and making it the best it can be.

If you think the Japanese are not good at inventing, you need to go back and do your homework again.

And yes you do get worms at the end of the rainbow but that is what attracts the birds and that is how you get a big Turkey on your dinner plate. This is they way.

[etusch]

If you think the Japanese are not good at inventing, you need to go back and do your homework again.

And yes you do get worms at the end of the rainbow but that is what attracts the birds and that is how you get a big Turkey on your dinner plate. This is they way.

Every nation excels in certain areas. The Chinese laid the foundations or created the earliest versions of many things we use today. The Japanese and Koreans are also astonishingly hardworking and do an excellent job at what they do. However, trying to do everything yourself can sometimes slow you down or lead to a waste of time. I like their products; both my car and my motorcycle are Japanese brands. And I am certainly not saying that the Japanese never invent anything; it is just that they are better at refining something to its absolute best form. Take the Wankel engine, for example. If I recall correctly, it was invented by Germans—or someone from that region—but it is clear who actually utilized it and mass-produced it for practical use.

[Bill]

If you think the Japanese are not good at inventing, you need to go back and do your homework again.

And yes you do get worms at the end of the rainbow but that is what attracts the birds and that is how you get a big Turkey on your dinner plate. This is they way.

Every nation excels in certain areas. The Chinese laid the foundations or created the earliest versions of many things we use today. The Japanese and Koreans are also astonishingly hardworking and do an excellent job at what they do. However, trying to do everything yourself can sometimes slow you down or lead to a waste of time. I like their products; both my car and my motorcycle are Japanese brands. And I am certainly not saying that the Japanese never invent anything; it is just that they are better at refining something to its absolute best form. Take the Wankel engine, for example. If I recall correctly, it was invented by Germans—or someone from that region—but it is clear who actually utilized it and mass-produced it for practical use.

japanese have many invention especially in electronic hardware ,they just dont rub it in everyone face like the americans,flash memory.blue ray disc ,qr codes, gallium nitride chips, carbon nanotube tech, first qubit for quantum computers by NEC and many many more. They is a reason why pretty much all electronic hardware is built in Asia, those countries learned and borrowed from development spearheaded by japan as its there neighbor. If you look at a country like usa most of their invention are done by foreigners especially from Asia with green card so picking whose more good at invention or innovations is a doggy business for other parts of the world.

[diffuser]

The rainbow is beautiful until you get to the end of it and there is no a pot of gold, just worms.

..................... The Japanese may not be very good at inventing things, but they are good at improving something and making it the best it can be.

If you think the Japanese are not good at inventing, you need to go back and do your homework again.

And yes you do get worms at the end of the rainbow but that is what attracts the birds and that is how you get a big Turkey on your dinner plate. This is they way.

My point was that the way I read the article, Honda were working towards a big step for next year, not that they already have a big step ready for next year. If you start to believe that you raise expectations around here for next year. If they're then disappointed, it turns into a shiit show around here. There is gonna be improvement for next year. How big, is not known. Honda have set their goal high but we don't know if they will a achieve those goals. Remember, ONE of the reasons we're in this situation is because Honda themselves said they didn't meet their own goals. Until the 2027 PU is in the car and Honda says they met their goals, there is always a risk of that happening.

[peewon]

whats wild to me is that it doesnt seem like anyone is having the driveability issues that aston are. admittedly i havent payed as much attention to the other teams issues, but its been an issue with us since day one, and still continues to be. i dont get it

I think a lot of it has to do with the power management software. It needs a lot of data to optimize and for consistent data you need stable hardware, which they have not had since testing. It happened with their spec 1 PU and again when they brought spec 2. It also probably depends on how good the software is at learning. Its such a new area of differentiation in F1 that its almost impossible to speculate about. But I do think its the key to this ruleset once all the hardware differences normalize.

[mzso]

It may be that Honda is working on cylinders, pistons, con-rods, etc that expand so they can go to a lot higher compression ratio.
The "big scandal" from early this year seems to have been mostly forgotten by now.

[diffuser]

It may be that Honda is working on cylinders, pistons, con-rods, etc that expand so they can go to a lot higher compression ratio.
The "big scandal" from early this year seems to have been mostly forgotten by now.

We had big discussions about this before the season started. From what I remember, the imposed materials makes this very hard. It's one thing to talk about expansion with aluminum but when you're forced into using specific iron alloys, it's another. Now they're even measuring the compression ratio at temperature, makes it harder.

[Petebass]

Well, it seems like it's only difficult for Honda...