2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[deadhead]

I’ve noticed that SAI is much closer to LEC when the car doesn’t work properly. It was the same last year until Japan.

[deadhead]

Sure, but maybe something is just rubbing me the wrong way. The way Vasseur explains it makes it seem like a small issue easily fixed... if this is the case then I will be more than pleased but from what I can tell it seems they have no clue where to start to fix it.

They are pushing aero to the limit and they can likely find 2-3 tenths without bouncing and 1-2 tenths more with drivers' confidence if they find the right solution.

But they’ve been struggling with a variation of this very problem since France 2022, so perhaps they don’t quite understand how to fix it?

[Vanja #66]

https://formu1a.uno/it/bouncing-ferrari ... lverstone/

Main points:

• Performance window shink, set-up now has compromises, imola upgrades were good

• no fix in Silverstone, no upgrade (they don't explicitly say this, so the last 20% of the Barcelona part might be with held, there goes my flexing FW hope)

• Engineers think bouncing exacerbated by "bumpy" Spain and Austria tracks, Silverstone better (doubt)

• Need for more understanding

Although painful, this triple header before the break might be the best timing for Ferrari if they are going to find a fix. Have to hope it can be remedied by Hungary.

Sainz confirmed they are working on a solution, 99% meaning they will bring suspension parts to Silverstone hoping they will help. They can't make magical aero updates to a problem they encountered on track 10 days ago. Rain slowing things down might actually help them if it extends into Saturday and Sunday, which doesn't look to be the case at the moment.

But they’ve been struggling with a variation of this very problem since France 2022, so perhaps they don’t quite understand how to fix it?

They struggled with bouncing only with early SF23 and later in the season they admitted they knew from the simulator they are facing an uphill battle.

[Space-heat]

https://formu1a.uno/it/bouncing-ferrari ... lverstone/

Main points:

• Performance window shink, set-up now has compromises, imola upgrades were good

• no fix in Silverstone, no upgrade (they don't explicitly say this, so the last 20% of the Barcelona part might be with held, there goes my flexing FW hope)

• Engineers think bouncing exacerbated by "bumpy" Spain and Austria tracks, Silverstone better (doubt)

• Need for more understanding

Although painful, this triple header before the break might be the best timing for Ferrari if they are going to find a fix. Have to hope it can be remedied by Hungary.

Sainz confirmed they are working on a solution, 99% meaning they will bring suspension parts to Silverstone hoping they will help. They can't make magical aero updates to a problem they encountered on track 10 days ago.

I know on the Aero update, I was more wondering where the missing final 20% of the 2nd package is? Maybe they want to resolve the bouncing before brining another aero augment.

I read the Sainz part https://formu1a.uno/it/sainz-non-so-qua ... lverstone/, doesn't seem guaranteed, as you said short timelines so hopefully they have something, at worst they can get new data.

[Vanja #66]

I know on the Aero update, I was more wondering where the missing final 20% of the 2nd package is? Maybe they want to resolve the bouncing before brining another aero augment.

I read the Sainz part https://formu1a.uno/it/sainz-non-so-qua ... lverstone/, doesn't seem guaranteed, as you said short timelines so hopefully they have something, at worst they can get new data.

It could be some internal aero stuff or small changes to engine cover and/or outlet

[Space-heat]

I know on the Aero update, I was more wondering where the missing final 20% of the 2nd package is? Maybe they want to resolve the bouncing before brining another aero augment.

I read the Sainz part https://formu1a.uno/it/sainz-non-so-qua ... lverstone/, doesn't seem guaranteed, as you said short timelines so hopefully they have something, at worst they can get new data.

It could be some internal aero stuff or small changes to engine cover and/or outlet

[JPower]

I’ve noticed that SAI is much closer to LEC when the car doesn’t work properly. It was the same last year until Japan.

The car was working properly before Spain and he was still very close.

Just depends on which driver's window the car favors at the moment. Leclerc does have a wider window of operation, and its clear the 2023 car moved more in his direction towards the end of that season.

[Andres125sx]

That's counting both qualifying sessions and sprint sessions, in addition to races.

Can you guys please stop posting FALSE information?

If they are 5-4 on long races, how in the hell can you say they are 14-0 overall?


You guys are too biased, we all are biased, but trying to cheat F1T members posting false information is completely beyond the line...

Andres - rebut the data. Argue the points

I did, and Hollus deleted it

[Andres125sx]

Can you guys please stop posting FALSE information?

If they are 5-4 on long races, how in the hell can you say they are 14-0 overall?

You guys are too biased, we all are biased, but trying to cheat F1T members posting false information is completely beyond the line...

I said a 14-0 streak before this

No you didn´t, you said 14-0 before this, including "streak" would have clarified the statement

Now it makes more sense, even when it´s first time I see intra-team battles that way (adding Q and R), but it must be around that 15-10 you said

Cheers

[ScuderiaLeo]

No you didn´t, you said 14-0 before this, including "streak" would have clarified the statement

Now it makes more sense, even when it´s first time I see intra-team battles that way (adding Q and R), but it must be around that 15-10 you said

Cheers

Okay. Sorry if the wording was unclear.

More from Motorsport IT on what Ferrari will bring to Silverstone. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, worth reading.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10630637/

"The red car, with its bounces, experiences sudden losses of downforce, generating two negative effects: first, the drivers are forced to lift their foot off the accelerator in fast corners; second, the rear tires overheat due to the lack of grip.

Yesterday, Carlos Sainz was in the simulator; today, it's Charles Leclerc's turn. The drivers have made themselves available to the team to find a solution because the bouncing undermines the confidence of those behind the wheel. At the Red Bull Ring, the two tried to compensate for the lower speed in fast corners with more aggressive braking, clinging to one of the red car’s strengths.

The result was that on Saturday, in the Sprint race, by the second lap, there was already a recorded overheating of the brake discs, forcing the drivers to lift and coast at the end of the straights, further losing performance.

At Silverstone, we will see a less "powerful" rear diffuser in the hope of controlling the "porpoising": a step back in the hope of making two steps forward later. We will see the rear wing designed for the English track, with the conviction that with three practice sessions, it is possible to find a compromise setup that allows the drivers to exploit the red car."

[ing.]

The bouncing is an aeroelastic phenomenon and so can’t be attributed specifically to the “suspension being overloaded” or whatever else the supposed technical pundits want us to believe in their X postings.

Fundamentally, it’s the coupling of the aero map with suspension harmonics as well described here by Mr. Migeot a couple of years ago:

“Migeot explained that the cause of porpoising was not in a cyclical stall function, but down to the aerodynamic forces within the underbody at high speed inducing movement in the car close to its natural heave frequency.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-t ... s/8698442/

So, even though the bouncing on SF-24 has been brought on by aero changes—and may be resolved by further aero updates that are less sensitive to car attitude—changes to suspension settings and spring rates may be used to tune out harmonics if this doesn’t upset car behaviour in other ways. This is likely what they’re working on now.

[Fakepivot]

I thought with the test they had done in Paul Richard’s and mugello they would have had better understanding of high speed corner..

[yooogurt]

At Silverstone we will see a less 'powerful' rear diffuser in the hope of dealing with 'porpoising': you take one step back in the hope of then taking two steps forward. We'll see the rear anti-wing designed for the British circuit and the detail changes that were part of the British package, in the hope that a compromise setup can be found in the three free practice sessions that will allow the drivers to take advantage of the red. We are at a crucial stage of the season: in addition to defending second place in the constructors' championship from the onslaught of McLaren, it is important to find certainty in the definition of the SF-25, a single-seater car that will have a front suspension with tie rods and a new body with a different weight distribution.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10630637/

[KimiRai]

At Silverstone we will see a less 'powerful' rear diffuser in the hope of dealing with 'porpoising': you take one step back in the hope of then taking two steps forward. We'll see the rear anti-wing designed for the British circuit and the detail changes that were part of the British package, in the hope that a compromise setup can be found in the three free practice sessions that will allow the drivers to take advantage of the red. We are at a crucial stage of the season: in addition to defending second place in the constructors' championship from the onslaught of McLaren, it is important to find certainty in the definition of the SF-25, a single-seater car that will have a front suspension with tie rods and a new body with a different weight distribution.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10630637/

"Nugnes" disclaimer. Always keep that in mind...

[Vanja #66]

We could see smaller beam wing than Austria for sure and this might cover both weaker diffuser and new "rear" wing.

Trying out a 4th rear wing design of the season can only be a new low-mid-load wing between Spa 23 and current mid-load wing used since launch. This does not make sense in Silverstone, might be a trial for a new Spa spec. Last year McLaren ran what evolved into their mid-high-load wing in Barcelona, downforce is needed in the old airfield