2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Seanspeed]

Ferrari's leadership is not good at processing bad news. In 1991, they reacted to criticism of the car by Alain Prost by dismissing him, only to have him win an arbitration case against them.
In 1992, Ivan Capelli drove the 1991 car, then the 1992 car, and told Ferrari that the 1992 car was worse than the 1991 car, while Jean Alesi told Ferrari how good the car was. The team ignored Capelli's input and spent the whole season tinkering with the car, to no real effect.
The tuning-out of drivers ended with the Schumacher era, where the team listened to and acted on Schumacher's input. The results speak for themselves.
Since the end of the Schumacher era, Ferrari has slipped back into its historical pattern of average to mediocre performance, with drivers spending their best years at the team, but without acheiving any breakthrough. Ferrari hired Alonso and Vettel, winners of championships, and failed to win a championship with either of them. That is a pretty consistent level of under-achievement. Team Principals have come and gone, but the fundamental level of underperformance remains.
Now they hire a driver who may be the GOAT, but they give the impression that they regarded his feedback as ignorable. The attempt to make the car more driveable may have made it slightly slower, but Racing Bulls has a car which is far easier to drive than the Red Bull, and sometimes as fast as Red Bull.
I think Ferrari is lost in the last year of the regulations, but with one notable exception, their history tells me that listening to drivers does not seem to be a priority.

Drivers dont design cars. This continues to be one of the biggest myths in F1. Drivers are not the ones with the keys to the kingdom via their feedback. Especially when feedback is often so incredibly situational. And when it's not situational, we're just talking the typical sort of consistent behavior of a car that everybody within Ferrari's engineering is perfectly well aware of. Identifying behavior problems is easy. Identifying what's causing them is a lot more difficult. And then actually producing fixes is much harder still. The ONLY part of this process that drivers can help with is that first and easiest step.

This idea that what's holding Ferrari back is 'not listening to drivers' is so completely out of the range of plausible. Ferrari's design and engineering is simply not as good as the best in F1 right now. It's really that simple. They're good, but lack that edge and confidence that separates a good team from a top team.

[f1isgood]

Ferrari's leadership is not good at processing bad news. In 1991, they reacted to criticism of the car by Alain Prost by dismissing him, only to have him win an arbitration case against them.
In 1992, Ivan Capelli drove the 1991 car, then the 1992 car, and told Ferrari that the 1992 car was worse than the 1991 car, while Jean Alesi told Ferrari how good the car was. The team ignored Capelli's input and spent the whole season tinkering with the car, to no real effect.
The tuning-out of drivers ended with the Schumacher era, where the team listened to and acted on Schumacher's input. The results speak for themselves.
Since the end of the Schumacher era, Ferrari has slipped back into its historical pattern of average to mediocre performance, with drivers spending their best years at the team, but without acheiving any breakthrough. Ferrari hired Alonso and Vettel, winners of championships, and failed to win a championship with either of them. That is a pretty consistent level of under-achievement. Team Principals have come and gone, but the fundamental level of underperformance remains.
Now they hire a driver who may be the GOAT, but they give the impression that they regarded his feedback as ignorable. The attempt to make the car more driveable may have made it slightly slower, but Racing Bulls has a car which is far easier to drive than the Red Bull, and sometimes as fast as Red Bull.
I think Ferrari is lost in the last year of the regulations, but with one notable exception, their history tells me that listening to drivers does not seem to be a priority.

Drivers dont design cars. This continues to be one of the biggest myths in F1. Drivers are not the ones with the keys to the kingdom via their feedback. Especially when feedback is often so incredibly situational. And when it's not situational, we're just talking the typical sort of consistent behavior of a car that everybody within Ferrari's engineering is perfectly well aware of. Identifying behavior problems is easy. Identifying what's causing them is a lot more difficult. And then actually producing fixes is much harder still. The ONLY part of this process that drivers can help with is that first and easiest step.

This idea that what's holding Ferrari back is 'not listening to drivers' is so completely out of the range of plausible. Ferrari's design and engineering is simply not as good as the best in F1 right now. It's really that simple. They're good, but lack that edge and confidence that separates a good team from a top team.

Spot on. Drivers role is extremely exaggerated in car development. In fact I would argue that the only thing good drivers bring to table is just pure pace. Going that extra half a hundredth quicker in every part of the lap. Even tire management to a very good extent is purely a car trait. Sure the excellent drivers are better than their teammates usually but that's about it.

Unfortunately, drivers are the "face" of the "sport". So the media and the reporters create these obviously incorrect narratives and most of F1 fandom just eats this up.

The reality as you said is Ferrari's technical team is not good enough. That's all there is.

[deadhead]

The reality as you said is Ferrari's technical team is not good enough. That's all there is.

Has been the case for a very long time and it’s likely even worse now that Vassuer has had ample time to implement his “vision”

[f1isgood]

The reality as you said is Ferrari's technical team is not good enough. That's all there is.

Has been the case for a very long time and it’s likely even worse now that Vassuer has had ample time to implement his “vision”

Indeed. They haven't made a single championship capable car since 2018. And even 2018 I think I can make a very good argument for the car being as good as the Mercedes at best. So even if they make a good car their technical team doesnt deliver a clearly dominant package.

McLaren literally were a useless team the last time Ferrari had such a car. Now look at them being dominant (they were helped a lot by the cost cap but still). Red Bull and Mercedes as Charles said have clearly made progress throughout this season while Ferrari haven't.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Leclerc and Hamilton have even said the team listened to their feedback from the first iteration of the car.

It's just the car has an unsolvable flaw and the upgrades they brought didn't help. That's the fault of the engineering team, though like AR said last month, I think there's many bright "regular" minds in Maranello. The problem is the management who aren't open to their ideas. It's no secret there's a culture of listening to one's superiors in Ferrari, we've heard about that behind the scenes for years.

Them canceling the floor didn't help in any way. The suspension and floor were supposed to fit together, we only have one part actually on the car.

[ScuderiaLeo]

This is just sad

[venkyhere]

This is just sad

This is LiCo, a permanent fixture with all races with SF25. Can't ride high, can't ride stiff, can't ride low, hence LiCo

[Emag]

Their whole second stints overlayed (minus outlaps)

Don't remember now if Bearman was "released" by a slower car at some point where his pace visibly picks up massively. But in any case, it's pretty crazy that looking at their fastest portions of the stints, Leclerc isn't doing any better than Bearman. It also seems like Leclerc was not able to "properly" push the car for more than one lap before being asked to do lico (presumably), but you can see the occasional dips and then immediately followed by a couple of slow laps. Towards the end, the brakes were probably letting go similarly to Lewis, so Leclerc was just doing his best to get it to the flag.

Disaster weekend.

[LM10]

Why are you guys even flooding the thread with “analysis” about the flaws the car has? Every race weekend the same old stuff. Guess what, it will not change anymore. The season is done and the team has decided to not bring anything to the car long time ago. They perfectly know the problems the car has and most probably even the solutions, but it would take too much resources and time at this stage.

Whatever happens now will not have any effect on next year’s car and does not say anything about how it will perform. Nothing.

They’ve been too bold with all the changes to the car from last season. It was a concept change and there obviously was the realistic risk of having issues. I’ll not criticize the team for doing that. Going on with last season’s car would have meant giving up the championship from the beginning. They took risks by going another route, but were not rewarded. That’s it.

Also, talking bad about Vasseur who probably has like 1% influence on the actual car’s pace is just so weak and shows the root issue this team has had for many years now. It exactly reflects the completely wrong thinking and management the Ferrari board has done in the last tens of years. Firing the team principal over and over and over again without blaming themselves in the first place.

Vasseur’s work and restructuring in the technical department will not show itself before 2026 and beyond. That’s as clear as the sun, but there still are people criticizing him for what we see now. LMAO.

[rifrafs2kees]

To your point, Zach Brown has been at the helm at McLaren since 2016. During this time, they've been 9th, 6th 2x, 5th, 4th 3x, 3rd before they started wining.
During that same time, Ferrari has had Arrivabene, Binotto, and now Vasseur; smells like a culture of wanting everything now without trusting the process.

[f1316]

Let’s hold our horses a bit here: a few races ago, Ferrari was beating Red Bull. Since then, Red Bull bought a floor update that seems to have transformed their car - coincidentally at almost the exact same time Ferrari were due to bring a new floor which was later cancelled.

Ferrari chose to stop development of the 2025 car and so didn’t spend the time bothering with this new floor but it means they’re a step behind on the development race vs teams like RB (and I believe Mercedes also brought something, correct me if I’m wrong). We can’t yet know if that was the right decision or not but you certainly can’t judge that now - undoubtedly the 2025 car would be in better shape if they had brought it. The reason not to bring it was to benefit the 2026 car and only time will tell if that will pay off. But I think most of us would agree that there was little point pursuing this season IF not doing so would allow them more resources to spend on next year (that is the one that matters at this point).

[Xyz22]

Let’s hold our horses a bit here: a few races ago, Ferrari was beating Red Bull. Since then, Red Bull bought a floor update that seems to have transformed their car - coincidentally at almost the exact same time Ferrari were due to bring a new floor which was later cancelled.

Ferrari chose to stop development of the 2025 car and so didn’t spend the time bothering with this new floor but it means they’re a step behind on the development race vs teams like RB (and I believe Mercedes also brought something, correct me if I’m wrong). We can’t yet know if that was the right decision or not but you certainly can’t judge that now - undoubtedly the 2025 car would be in better shape if they had brought it. The reason not to bring it was to benefit the 2026 car and only time will tell if that will pay off. But I think most of us would agree that there was little point pursuing this season IF not doing so would allow them more resources to spend on next year (that is the one that matters at this point).

This has been the first mistake from Serra which proved that he shouldn't be Technical Director. He decided to invest 3 months of development for a completely useless suspension which everyone know that doesn't yield a lot of performance, especially compared to the front wing and the floor.

[Luscion]

According to Sky Italia, Elkann and Vigna are expected in Maranello

https://sport.sky.it/formula-1/2025/10/ ... _link_null

[Seanspeed]

It was a concept change and there obviously was the realistic risk of having issues. I’ll not criticize the team for doing that. Going on with last season’s car would have meant giving up the championship from the beginning. They took risks by going another route, but were not rewarded. That’s it.

100%. I'll forever die on that hill as well.

Ferrari took a swing for the fences, and we should all be glad they did. There was nothing to accomplish, and little to learn, from simply continuing with a safe, but ultimately underwhelming 2024 concept. Even if 2025 has been a failure(and to be clear, it's not like this car is garbage, just not great), it may even help them learn more than they would have otherwise. Whether they can apply that going forward is very much to be seen, but it's still almost assuredly better than learning less by continuing with a limited concept they already had a lot of information about.

[deadhead]

According to Sky Italia, Elkann and Vigna are expected in Maranello

https://sport.sky.it/formula-1/2025/10/ ... _link_null

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