McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Malaysia is going to be more of a downforce test for the car, so we should see an improvement if the problems truly are only mechanical.

That's just it though, they have said they lack downforce. To be fair they said they had other problems too, but lack of DF has been mentioned quite a bit.

[gary123]

the balance of DF isnt equal!! there is a bit more DF on the rear of the car,and the front is with a minimal DF!! the pull rod creates setup problems and the front of the car is very stiff but in general the car lacks of DF!! they have to run to the next races as much possible soft setup sospensions!! why mclaren doesnt bring a 4 element front wing?? ferrari mercedes and redbull use them!!

[foxivan]

Malaysia is going to be more of a downforce test for the car, so we should see an improvement if the problems truly are only mechanical.

That's just it though, they have said they lack downforce. To be fair they said they had other problems too, but lack of DF has been mentioned quite a bit.

i also noticed their comments and was quite surprised, in theory the mp4-28 should be aerodynamically superior than the 27, and i remembered last year they even needed to reduce the front downforce due the the decreased rear downforce. and now they are moaning about lacking downforce....

personally i suspect main issue is with the front pull pod suspension, and the team is trying to solve the issue using a higher ride height and different setup, which in turn decreased overall downforce and poor ride.

[Raptor22]

The understeer is most likely a mechanical grip problem. There seems to be a serious problem with the front end of the car. Either they're struggling to set it up, pull-rod taking a lot longer to make changes, or the geometry is fundamentally flawed.

I'm inclined to think it's more setup issues at the moment, since Ferrari went through a similar thing last year. Malaysia is going to be more of a downforce test for the car, so we should see an improvement if the problems truly are only mechanical.

Ferrari had similar problem with their 2012 car in the first few races. They just did not have enough track time with the Pull Rod suspension to get it dialled in for all conditions. It took them the better part of the fly away races to get to grips with it.
McLaren are likely facing a similar issue.
It would explain why they don;t want to develop the aero to extensively. They need a familiar aero baseline to get the suspension set up isolated.
Lets see how it pans out for them when they get to Europe

[Maxion]

The understeer is most likely a mechanical grip problem. There seems to be a serious problem with the front end of the car. Either they're struggling to set it up, pull-rod taking a lot longer to make changes, or the geometry is fundamentally flawed.

I'm inclined to think it's more setup issues at the moment, since Ferrari went through a similar thing last year. Malaysia is going to be more of a downforce test for the car, so we should see an improvement if the problems truly are only mechanical.

Ferrari had similar problem with their 2012 car in the first few races. They just did not have enough track time with the Pull Rod suspension to get it dialled in for all conditions. It took them the better part of the fly away races to get to grips with it.
McLaren are likely facing a similar issue.
It would explain why they don;t want to develop the aero to extensively. They need a familiar aero baseline to get the suspension set up isolated.
Lets see how it pans out for them when they get to Europe

Not to mention that if they need to re-manufacture some parts it's quite tough to get the information about the changes to the UK, make the parts, and send them to Malaysia.

I suspect Mclaren will do a bit better in Malaysia, as they no doubt will know the car a bit better, but they'll probably still end up around P10.

[chumma]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, the problems start at the front wing. Something is a miss when last years front wing designed for last years car works on this years car, not withstanding the fact that the front wing was introduced because the older one was too draggy and they needed to shed front downforce. I was shocked that no new configuration of front wing was tested in the winter

[WhiteBlue]

Ferrari had similar problem with their 2012 car in the first few races. They just did not have enough track time with the Pull Rod suspension to get it dialled in for all conditions. It took them the better part of the fly away races to get to grips with it.
McLaren are likely facing a similar issue.
It would explain why they don;t want to develop the aero to extensively. They need a familiar aero baseline to get the suspension set up isolated.
Lets see how it pans out for them when they get to Europe

That sounds like a logical explanation but it does not fit the comments we got from Jenson Button.
Jenson Button:"The way the car is at the moment, this package that is sat in the garage right now is not going to win a race."
Jenson is not an engineer but he seems to feel that some elements of the package need changing. I have no idea what that could be. So for McLaren's sake lets hope that it is really only is a setup issue with the new front suspension and that they will get on top of it very quickly. The season could be lost if their principal opponents at the top of the grid race away with the points. If it takes them until Europe to fix the problems it may be too late considering that this will be a very closely fought season.

[CjC]

Just a thought.....

I've read 2 Perez comments now where he has complained about a lack of downforce, have Mclaren in raising their chassis to improve airflow to the rear created some sort of stall in airflow? How ironic that in theory they have created a greater volume of air going to the rear and it's not working as good as the low chassis height from last year

?

Mclaren are commenting about a lack of ride quality and suggesting that this issue is talking performance away from the car, or at least taking performance set up changes/time from the car

[shamikaze]

If it takes them until Europe to fix the problems it may be too late considering that this will be a very closely fought season.

I would say having a closely fought season might be the best thing if you are struggling. Chances are real that in such a scenario wins (and hence points) are distributed amongst multiple trams as opposed to 1 single team. The gap is more likely to be smaller. But since it is a closeler fight, it will also be harder to "catch" up since there are more then 1 cars taking bites at you in every turn/lap/race...

I've always been a LH / McL fan, so to see Mercedes and LH do weel is grraat for me, howeverI'd like to see McL perform great as well.

[Shakeman]

The explanation I read (if I can find the link I'll edit this post) that was that she they try and dial out the understeer they lose grip at the rear. This would indicate that air is no longer going where they expect it to go as they dial more DF on the front. I did see a McLaren car with flow vis and the air appeared to be going everywhere bar between the floor and rear wheels. I wonder if their exhaust is no longer finding the right path?

The problem is compounded by each setup taking an age to complete which we saw in testing with huge gaps between runs. I suspect the ride issue is caused by taking the car setup way beyond the anticipated window and having to stiffen and lower everything to get at least some performance out of the thing.

I saw the McLaren looking like a washboard in the bumpier sections yesterday, it did look shocking.

[turbof1]

I can understand the decision to for pullrod this year. Nex year those noses wil be a lot lower, and so the pullrod will bring more advantages. Taking this year to understand it is the right way to go, even though they have to go through a difficult time now.

I am suprised though. Ferrari last year had some problems with their pull rod, but nowhere near what mclaren looks to be facing, and Ferrari changed the back AND the front to pullrod back then. McLaren should have been able to get it working.

Am I right to say that the coming race will suit them better? Melbourne is more about traction and suspension setup for the bumpy surface, Malaysia more about downforce. They should fare atleast a bit better.

[rssh]

I am a noobie just hear (read!) me out on Macca problem . I know every car is designed to work differently and hence we can never directly compare than wrt part shape and size .

Now Lotus and RB run lower nose wrt other front running team may be because they don't need aggressive lower body aero because their coke bottle shape is in a form of tunnels which limit the volume of air going into them hence if they have higher nose then more volume air will reach the tunnel which may be cannot take that amount of high pressure air hence causing more drag and unbalanced car .

Now in Macca , Ferrari the Coanda exhaust result in better coke bottle shape wrt ramp shaped exhaust hence the coke bottle is stronger therefore a higher nose more volume of air and more downforce at the rear . Before German GP 2012 Macca had rectangle side pod inlet which were then updated with a little curve to aid the smoother air flow around the sidepods hence better DF . In 2013 season there is more curved inlet for the side pod hence more smoother flow and much higher nose so more volume of air .

Now Macca had a strong front end in 2011 and 2012 season and now with the rear having better downforce the front end is lacking the balancing act hence there is understeer , also now to improve the front end bite Macca had to stiffen the front suspension hence the poor ride quality and also there can may be a problem with the front pull rod suspension due to compact packaging they may be cannot have more flexibility in adjustment (I could be completely wrong wrt pull rod but the angle of it in Macca is a bit awkward may be ) .

Hence I think they may be need a pelican nose like Lotus to have a balanced front and rear till the time they sort-out the front suspension and downforce level .

PS - I may be completely wrong here , looking for good pointers here.

[Raptor22]

Ferrari had similar problem with their 2012 car in the first few races. They just did not have enough track time with the Pull Rod suspension to get it dialled in for all conditions. It took them the better part of the fly away races to get to grips with it.
McLaren are likely facing a similar issue.
It would explain why they don;t want to develop the aero to extensively. They need a familiar aero baseline to get the suspension set up isolated.
Lets see how it pans out for them when they get to Europe

That sounds like a logical explanation but it does not fit the comments we got from Jenson Button.
Jenson Button:"The way the car is at the moment, this package that is sat in the garage right now is not going to win a race."
Jenson is not an engineer but he seems to feel that some elements of the package need changing. I have no idea what that could be. So for McLaren's sake lets hope that it is really only is a setup issue with the new front suspension and that they will get on top of it very quickly. The season could be lost if their principal opponents at the top of the grid race away with the points. If it takes them until Europe to fix the problems it may be too late considering that this will be a very closely fought season.

I view Jenson's coments as merely a statement of the obvious. AS the car was at Albert PArk it certainly is not going to win a race but comments made by Whitmarsh seem to indicate they need to establish where they went wrong, hence the old aero going back onto the car - the common base.
Other comments by the drivers in interviews seem to indicate a handling problem that stems from the front of the car.

[Raptor22]

I can understand the decision to for pullrod this year. Nex year those noses wil be a lot lower, and so the pullrod will bring more advantages. Taking this year to understand it is the right way to go, even though they have to go through a difficult time now.

I am suprised though. Ferrari last year had some problems with their pull rod, but nowhere near what mclaren looks to be facing, and Ferrari changed the back AND the front to pullrod back then. McLaren should have been able to get it working.

Am I right to say that the coming race will suit them better? Melbourne is more about traction and suspension setup for the bumpy surface, Malaysia more about downforce. They should fare atleast a bit better.

How will the pulll rod bring advantags next year?
It could go either way depending on design philosophy. there are many many successful low nose push rod layout suspension cars that seem to indicate push rod may be better.
If the thinking that the pull rod provides better alignment of the airflow over the pull rod to the flow under the car then its clear that next year with lower noses the push rod will prvide the same benefit

[aral]

Whitmarsh stated that pull rod had several advantages over pushrod. One of these was the airflow, but he went on to explain that the entire system was lighter, as it needed smaller springing and damping components. This weight reduction more than compensated for the higher position of the unit. Ferrari got it to work, so there is no reason to suspect that McLaren will not be able to overcome the tuning difficulties.