Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[toraabe]

so i guess with that logic Redbull will never win a championship because of the Renault team?

McLaren have allways been hiding behind engine when their car was bad, If they got the best engine they cant do that, we can see that in 2014, yes okay somebody will say that Mercedes dont let them win, but why then they didnt finish every race in 3rd and 4th place in 2014?

They where down on power even then because they where using Mobile fuel ,and not petronas , so they had around 30HP less then Mercedes had.

50.

[Tommy Cookers]

If its down to harmonics and resonance, is it the engine designers fault for wanting the wrong material for the block, or is it a foundry issue for using the wrong material or wrong process. ........

a stronger grade of a material is not significantly stiffer than ordinary grades
ie cheap iron/steel or aluminium alloy has much the same elastic modulus as expensive, strong iron/steel or aluminium alloy
(if you could boost the elastic modulus of the stronger grades of material you could be a billionaire)

so harmonics/resonance (or forced vibration) problems would be relieved by using thicker material (redesign raising stiffness and natural frequency)
not by keeping the same dimensions and changing the grade of material

50 years ago the Cosworth DFV crank for commonality used the notably large 1 15/16" journal diameter of UK Ford production cranks
so (my interpretation) the early DFV crank was stiffer (higher frequency) than necessary at the time - certainly it needed no crankshaft damper
http://www.grandprixengines.co.uk/cosworthstory.pdf

a crank for a fuel-limit formula would be as slim as bearing loads allow, to minimise friction etc

[toraabe]

Could maybe be harmonics that occur only when engine is mounted on gearbox and chassis.

[godlameroso]

Could maybe be harmonics that occur only when engine is mounted on gearbox and chassis.

As in NVH induced resonance?

[63l8qrrfy6]

Wrist pin failure?

It would be primarily a failure of the joint due to oil starvation causing secondary piston failure. Generally an aluminium piston will go before the steel pin does.

Now that I think about it, it is known that small end joints can function without a direct oil feed (even though they have been designed with direct lubrication in mind), particularly when piston cooling nozzles are used. In many cases removing the drilling actually improves the bushing life due to the increase in area and decrease in specific pressure.

If the piston cooling jets fail to provide oil another possible outcome is that the piston overheats and the skirt starts scuffing.


However all of these failures have a well-known tell-tale - a large increase in FMEP before catastrophic failure - therefore it seems unlikely they would occur unexpectedly given how well instrumented these F1 engines are.
But then again the same goes for knock - it's not like they are unaware when they transition from incipient into full blown knock.

[Dimi]

If suddenly occurs a black out in electronics, that could lead to loss of control of pneumatic valves and other actuators driving the valvetrain. then you will definitely result with a broken engine and blown pistons. I m really curious what reason can cause these insulation failures only in track conditions and not on the dyno

[63l8qrrfy6]

If suddenly occurs a black out in electronics, that could lead to loss of control of pneumatic valves and other actuators driving the valvetrain. then you will definitely result with a broken engine and blown pistons. I m really curious what reason can cause these insulation failures only in track conditions and not on the dyno

Only mechanical regulators are allowed for the pneumatic system.

[godlameroso]

If its down to harmonics and resonance, is it the engine designers fault for wanting the wrong material for the block, or is it a foundry issue for using the wrong material or wrong process. ........

a stronger grade of a material is not significantly stiffer than ordinary grades
ie cheap iron/steel or aluminium alloy has much the same elastic modulus as expensive, strong iron/steel or aluminium alloy
(if you could boost the elastic modulus of the stronger grades of material you could be a billionaire)

so harmonics/resonance (or forced vibration) problems would be relieved by using thicker material (redesign raising stiffness and natural frequency)
not by keeping the same dimensions and changing the grade of material

50 years ago the Cosworth DFV crank for commonality used the notably large 1 15/16" journal diameter of UK Ford production cranks
so (my interpretation) the early DFV crank was stiffer (higher frequency) than necessary at the time - certainly it needed no crankshaft damper
http://www.grandprixengines.co.uk/cosworthstory.pdf

a crank for a fuel-limit formula would be as slim as bearing loads allow, to minimise friction etc

Resonance is caused by geometry as well, perhaps it can be controlled to within an acceptable level by changing things like firing order, crank geometry, or as you suggested a crank harmonic damper. Maybe find a way to dump the harmonic energy back into the MGU-K for extra propulsion.

[godlameroso]

If suddenly occurs a black out in electronics, that could lead to loss of control of pneumatic valves and other actuators driving the valvetrain. then you will definitely result with a broken engine and blown pistons. I m really curious what reason can cause these insulation failures only in track conditions and not on the dyno

Only mechanical regulators are allowed for the pneumatic system.

In other words only cam shafts are allowed?

[AndrisV]

This is my pure IMO. Honda isn't on top of game with controlling burning process on their experimental CC. And they shot themselves in a foot with various engine versions, everybody who has done some ECU mapping will tell you, every engine knocks differently, that is - to ear or microphone. So - active knock control fault. To be blunt - they don't know, when their current engine in a car is actually knocking. Look how long it took Renault to master this.

Since they admitted that they have gone for extremes, probably no safety border for harmonics, add a problem with knock (early V6T era problems) and we have an engine that is limited in power and throws rods.

[63l8qrrfy6]

If suddenly occurs a black out in electronics, that could lead to loss of control of pneumatic valves and other actuators driving the valvetrain. then you will definitely result with a broken engine and blown pistons. I m really curious what reason can cause these insulation failures only in track conditions and not on the dyno

Only mechanical regulators are allowed for the pneumatic system.

In other words only cam shafts are allowed?

No, it means that if you have pneumatic valve springs you can only use a mechanical regulator for the feed from the pressure vessel.

I read Dimi's comment as 'pressure regulator failed shutting off air supply to the pneumatic springs, causing valves to drop'

You don't seriously think they use anything other than a camshaft though, do you ?

[godlameroso]

Only mechanical regulators are allowed for the pneumatic system.

In other words only cam shafts are allowed?

No, it means that if you have pneumatic valve springs you can only use a mechanical regulator for the feed from the pressure vessel.

I read Dimi's comment as 'pressure regulator failed shutting off air supply to the pneumatic springs, causing valves to drop'

You don't seriously think they use anything other than a camshaft though, do you ?

Logic dictates they would, but who knows.

[63l8qrrfy6]

In other words only cam shafts are allowed?

No, it means that if you have pneumatic valve springs you can only use a mechanical regulator for the feed from the pressure vessel.

I read Dimi's comment as 'pressure regulator failed shutting off air supply to the pneumatic springs, causing valves to drop'

You don't seriously think they use anything other than a camshaft though, do you ?

Logic dictates they would, but who knows.

If by logic you mean unproven high-risk technology then maybe that explains the situation they are in. On the off-chance that I am completely wrong and Honda have indeed developed some sort of electro-hydraulic valve actuation then they are doing remarkably well!

[godlameroso]

Logic dictates they would use 4 cam shafts, but IF they're not, it would be pretty impressive, especially if they get it to work. Let's just leave that to some dream with no bearing on reality.

[popovic94]

No, it means that if you have pneumatic valve springs you can only use a mechanical regulator for the feed from the pressure vessel.

I read Dimi's comment as 'pressure regulator failed shutting off air supply to the pneumatic springs, causing valves to drop'

You don't seriously think they use anything other than a camshaft though, do you ?

Logic dictates they would, but who knows.

If by logic you mean unproven high-risk technology then maybe that explains the situation they are in. On the off-chance that I am completely wrong and Honda have indeed developed some sort of electro-hydraulic valve actuation then they are doing remarkably well!

Koeniggseg Freevalve?