2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[autogyro]

With a ZF automatic gearbox and hybrid system.

[Dragonfly]

Yes, I thought the same. And because of that posted in this thread. Although not an F1 engine it reveals some other Mercedes solution for a hybrid system. And maybe the larger scale involvement of Mercedes in such systems is one of the reasons they have the best PU at the moment.

[dren]

Yeah. It certainly isn't as simple as saying "if we use a bigger turbine we will go faster than the other teams". Every PU builder will have selected a turbine that is exactly the right size for their requirements. If MB are recovering more exhaust energy than the other teams, it is via clever design of the entire ICE/turbine combination. Furthermore, the less exhaust energy a team recovers, the more of it they will be sending direct to the MGUK - they simply can't afford to send much to the ES.

Right. Surprises me the other teams didn't come to the same conclusions.

I wonder if the Mercedes PU is set-up in a way that it is always delivering 160hp (after the max torque rev limitations) at the MGUK, and then varying the ICE over the rev range. Maybe their design focus was electric 1st, and then design around that, where as the other teams may have designed the ICE first and then figured out how to slap on an additional electric power unit.

[CBeck113]

My reading of the German text is that there has been a W196 on display as well as a complete engine.
The one on the photo does not look to me as 1954 technology, but I may be mistaken. I was born a bit later.
Anf the metal box on the side is a battery pack to me.

That's a V6, and not a blown straight 8, so definitely agree, not the W196 engine. The pan on the side not a sump, but perhaps fuel tank.

Any German speakers for reading the AMuS caption?

The engine is a 3.5l V6 Twin Turbo with 333hp, and has nothing to do with the W196. It is called the M276 DE 30 AL, and will be found in a few Mercedes models, such as the E400.
http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/mer ... 33-hp.html
Edit: spelling

[monsi]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... RKC3Zj54Lg

I find it interesting to read the Mercedes blog entry (2010) on this engine series with the future F1 engine in mind. I wonder just how much of what we see here formed the starting point for the F1 engine ideas.

[speedy56]

Does anybody here have a pic of ES?
I was wondering how big it actually is this year (does anyone maybe know a rough dimensions?), but because of its tricky position under the fuel tanks its diffucult to get it on the pics.



I got this 2 pics out of video presentations, but I dont think they are quite relative (just look at the difference of them two).

I checked the thread but didnt find anything

[dren]

It has to be between 20~25kg per the regulations. It also has to be installed wholly within the survival cell. Look up some battery densities and you probably can figure out some rough dimensions.

[speedy56]

It has to be between 20~25kg per the regulations. It also has to be installed wholly within the survival cell. Look up some battery densities and you probably can figure out some rough dimensions.

I got 12x25x31cm in case of ρ=2580kg/m3 and battery weight of 25kg.
If we take battery weight of 20kg it ends up like 11.5x23x29cm

I think it really is something like this because when you put those dimensions in the survival cell (about 65cm wide at that area) it ends up similar to those video animations

[PlatinumZealot]

As written in the back it is a road car engine
http://link.springer.com/static-content ... 1_HTML.jpg

What's the two stage chain drive for?

[Sasha]

Honda is working with IHI on the turbocharger(not a IHI alone design).

[FW17]

As written in the back it is a road car engine
http://link.springer.com/static-content ... 1_HTML.jpg

What's the two stage chain drive for?

Two-stage chain drive for low noise

The extreme compactness of the camshaft adjusters was achieved by the new, two-stage chain drive. This drives short secondary chains - one per cylinder bank - via a primary chain and an intermediate gear. All three chains can be individually adjusted via a chain tensioner. This results in low tensioning forces and low chain dynamics, ensuring consistent timing and outstanding acoustic properties, with friction reduced even further. In short, the new chain drive is compact and ensures low-noise operation.

[FW17]

It has to be between 20~25kg per the regulations. It also has to be installed wholly within the survival cell. Look up some battery densities and you probably can figure out some rough dimensions.

I got 12x25x31cm in case of ρ=2580kg/m3 and battery weight of 25kg.
If we take battery weight of 20kg it ends up like 11.5x23x29cm

I think it really is something like this because when you put those dimensions in the survival cell (about 65cm wide at that area) it ends up similar to those video animations

Lithium ion battery
Specific energy density: 100 to 250 W·h/kg (360 to 900 kJ/kg)
Volumetric energy density: 250 to 620 W·h/L (900 to 1900 J/cm³)
Specific power density: 300 to 1500 W/kg

[gruntguru]

That power density is a bit low for F1.

25 kg @ 1,500 W/kg = 38 kW

[atanatizante]

(I rewrite here my post coz I think here is the appropriate thread to do that in order to seek a detailed answer to the issue)
People at Red Bull are saying that Renault has almost 60 HP deficit to Merc PU ...
I don't get it: this came from the ICE, ERS or both?
And this deficit worth almost 2 sec a lap, bearing in mind you have full power for only 33 seconds?
Or the theory is that in the time remained in order to finish the lap ( t - 33 sec ) Renault has a deficit of 60 HP, or in other words in this time Merc's MGU-H is producing more power than Renault one and the deficit is the figure above mentioned?
And in addition this amount of power came from the split turbo or a better MGU-H performance?
...
Never-mind, back to square one and let`s do some thinking out loud :
1.A 60 HP deficit coming out of ERS it means at any time during a lap they can have only 100 HP as max. power, isn't it?
So this goes to the next question:
2. What ERS's component makes the difference?
3. If Renault's MGU-K is producing only 80 HP (2MJ allowed by the rules) thus MGU-H is responsible for the remaining 20 HP, isn't it?
4. And that is possible coz the other 60 HP MGU-H is producing goes for spooling the turbo and other ancillary stuff?
5. Or maybe Renault's MGU-K does only 20 HP and MGU-H the other 80 HP?
6. So in conclusion Mercy's ERS could produce 160 HP coz their clever split turbo allows them not spending energy elsewhere ( anti-lag and ancillary) or is the fact that in the time remaining t-33 sec. their MGU-H is giving them 60 HP more than Renault' MGU-H does?

[wuzak]

I think it is a combination of the ICE and ERS, but with the majority due to the ERS.

I believe Merc are extracting more out of their MGUH than either Renault or Ferrari, who may still be relying on the wastegates to control the turbo to some degree.

Merc can definitely recycle their captured MGUH energy directly to the MGUK. So that lengthens the amount of time the ES can supply power to the MGUK.

With the others I suspect that they have to use more of the stored energy in the ES on straights and may have to restrict the maximum they use so they can still have soem for other parts of the lap.