Concept power units from 2030

[mzso]

We could, for example, have engines with inherent balance and equal firing intervals--but the V6 obsessives will say it's not possible.

Blade-and-fork boxers for maximum balance.

Just use a 120° V6.

Feels large and wide for F1.

A rotary is unlikely to feature in a fuel flow limited formula.

Unless it's made good enough. The Liquidpiston guys have high promises whether, the design can live up to it I cannot tell.

[bananapeel23]

I do agree that the talk of energy deployment constantly throughout a grandprix weekend sucks (mostly because it's so artificial feeling) but I disagree that we want engines we don't want to talk about. F1 is a technical sport and any aspect of car design that brings performance should be talked about. What we don't ever want hear is constant talk of BOP which plagues sport car and gt racing.

You hit the nail on the head here. Energy deployment shouldn’t be talked about constantly (apart from overtake mode), but the engines should be advanced, efficient and technologically sophisticated.

To me the last engines were almost perfect apart from their weight, and some would say noise. Sometimes you heard a tiny bit of complaining about clipping, but that was about as far as engine talk went in the races. They were technological marvels with a boatload of development potential and produced the most efficient car engines ever made.

Straight up retrofitting the 350 kW MGU-K to the 2025 engines while reducing fuel flow to account for active aero would fix the 2026 cars immediately. Too many back to back straights might still present small issues, but it would be a rare exception.

[Cold Fussion]

I'm pretty sure we would still see a pretty significant amount of clipping even with an MGH-H because under the old regulations they couldn't generate 120 KW with it and significantly reducing the fuel flow rate (and possibly the fuel energy density) isn't going to help with that. I don't think clipping is avoidable unless the deployment time is a close match to the full throttle time. Superclipping is just a by product of the MGU-K being quite powerful and a significant portion of the total system power. Obviously the balance currently is absolutely wack, seeing drivers downshift twice in a straight line on 100% throttle is just not right.

[wuzak]

Straight up retrofitting the 350 kW MGU-K to the 2025 engines while reducing fuel flow to account for active aero would fix the 2026 cars immediately. Too many back to back straights might still present small issues, but it would be a rare exception.

You could probably ditch the active aero if the 2025 PU was used.

You would be getting to the end of the straight with at least 800hp, compared to 550hp prior to super-clipping.

[bananapeel23]

Straight up retrofitting the 350 kW MGU-K to the 2025 engines while reducing fuel flow to account for active aero would fix the 2026 cars immediately. Too many back to back straights might still present small issues, but it would be a rare exception.

You could probably ditch the active aero if the 2025 PU was used.

I don’t want active aero to be ditched. I much prefer overtake to DRS.

But that’s why I mentioned also reducing fuel flow to account for active aero. An 850 horsepower ICE with the torque of a 470 horsepower MGU-K, as well as active aero would be stupidly dangerous and likely result in top speeds in the 380-400 km/h range on the fastest tracks.

You would want to adjust fuel flow to get the ICE power down to ~700 horsepower and likely also adjust deployment dropoff to prevent absurd top speeds and to make deployment budgeting easier.

[CrazyCarperF1]

I think they should go back the v8 v10 route with a decently high rpm so the cars are lou. Keep them simple enough so they are cheapish so they aren't limited to a small engine allocation for the season, allowing the teams to push the engines allow them 6 or something. Still use green fuels or whatever.

[bananapeel23]

I'm pretty sure we would still see a pretty significant amount of clipping even with an MGH-H because under the old regulations they couldn't generate 120 KW with it and significantly reducing the fuel flow rate (and possibly the fuel energy density) isn't going to help with that. I don't think clipping is avoidable unless the deployment time is a close match to the full throttle time. Superclipping is just a by product of the MGU-K being quite powerful and a significant portion of the total system power. Obviously the balance currently is absolutely wack, seeing drivers downshift twice in a straight line on 100% throttle is just not right.

With the way the current MGU-K deployment works you wouldn’t even have clipping by the end of the straights, since the MGU-K can’t deploy above 345 km/h. This means you’re already relying on pure ICE power where clipping used to happen.

Obviously 9 MJ isn’t enough power to keep you deploying fully over a lap, so people would run out of battery power on the straights regardless. Still, I think most people would be fine with cars running out of battery power as long as they are pushing fully in the corners and aren’t decelerating on full throttle.

Luckily these cars are incapable of slowing down at full throttle due to active aero. Keep the throttle pinned without super clipping and they will keep accelerating until the end of every straight on the calandar, including Baku and Mexico.

[wuzak]

I don’t want active aero to be ditched. I much prefer overtake to DRS.

If you use the 2025 PU with a bigger MGUK it would be possible to specify a maximum output for normal deployment, and for overtake.

I don't think a 350kW MGUK would be necessary with the 600kW ICE.

You could have a 250kW MGUK, with 150kW normal deployment and 250kW overtake deployment.

But that’s why I mentioned also reducing fuel flow to account for active aero. An 850 horsepower ICE with the torque of a 470 horsepower MGU-K, as well as active aero would be stupidly dangerous and likely result in top speeds in the 380-400 km/h range on the fastest tracks.

You would want to adjust fuel flow to get the ICE power down to ~700 horsepower and likely also adjust deployment dropoff to prevent absurd top speeds and to make deployment budgeting easier.

With the 850hp ICE you could make the MGUK more like KERS - driver pushes button to deploy.

Recovery only under braking.

[Bence]

I see no point in talking about emotions, feelings and memories, hyperboles in technical topic. For me it has like 1% relevance.

Just the mere little fact that even governments use sound to influence emotional/mental states, induce fear, use voice-to-skull tech as crowd control, etc. show that it IS a hugely influential technical stuff. Or do you just think that Pagani did the exhausts of the R-models, GMA the Lauda's or Ferrari the FXXs' in a fully random way? Or Lexus, with the LFA where they cooperated with Yamaha (as the music intruments manufacturing division) to form a most fascinating, iconic sound profile? These very exact things are, yes, emotional factors, developed for millions of dollars - to attract millions of dollars via their enthusiasts.

If energize gases with certain pulses, spins, etc., the result will be better efficiency, a more pronounced tumble, quicker and more complete scavenging/expulsion. The resulting free-flowing sound provide the acoustic signature the companies strive for.

Cymatics and Schauberger are two important key words here. Great studies.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Here's what I'd like to see.

If we assume that the engine manufacturers will still want some hybrid component, then I would open up the rules a little.

On the ICE side, give them more freedom over configuration, just limit energy flow available through fuel (fully sustainable fuel) and overall weight. Then if they want to persist with a V6, they can, but if they want to go to a V8, that's an option. Would probably still need to use turbos to get the power levels we as fans would want.

On the electrical side. Limit the size and weight of the motors, allow electrical power to be used to spool up the turbo and get rid of lag. Only specify weight and dimensions for the battery. Also allow teams to buy their batteries independent of the ICE. Use a standard FIA safety cell for the batteries and a universal high voltage connector. This would allow for development of more and more efficient batteries.

I'd also specify that the driver must remain in control of when the battery deploys. This could be done via mapping modes selected on the steering wheel.

There be a limit on how much suppliers can charge teams, so that costs are kept under control.

I'd be aiming for a formula where drivers can push flat out for two laps in qualifying before having to worry about a recharge lap. During the race, hopefully this would mean they'd never be power starved.

[DenBommer]

Back to V8??

[Tommy Cookers]

all F1 V8s have since 1962 used a single-plane crankshaft aka a 'flat crank'
this is simple and gives a compact exhaust system but produces a substantial vibration (at twice engine rpm)

however a 'flat 8' engine with a similar (ie 4 throw) crankshaft is equally simple - but produces no vibration
it can further benefit in compactness etc by using co-planar connecting rods
but this 4 throw architecture dictates paired firings ....
ie it fires at 180 deg intervals (4 times per cycle not 8 times per cycle as a V8 does)

a 4 cylinder radial also produces no vibration (provided all the rod/big end geometries are equal and co-planar)
and rows of such cylinders could be 'stacked' eg 8 cylinders
or easier geometries used via staggered pairs of opposed cylinders back-to-back with similar sets (total 8 cylinders)

[NL_Fer]

2.2L Turbo V8 with 100kg/hr Fuel flow limit, but gradually increasing so it only reaches max fuel flow above 15000 rpm. So with get some high pitched sound back.

Single MGU-K with 350KW recovery and 175KW deployment

4MJ ES with 4MJ/lap recovery

[gearboxtrouble]

2.0 V8 turbo with 100kg of "sustainable" fuel at a target energy content 10% higher than now. Target power would be 1000 hp. Small 100 hp electric motor for boost only - 0.5MJ battery/supercapacitor would allow ~5s/lap of deployment at the start, in qualifying and when within 1s of the car in front. Total system including fuel should weigh ~10 kg less than the current PU + fuel. Add an anti lag system for the big turbo that shoots (small) flames out the exhaust.

[bananapeel23]

A wild concept would be a straight up engine formula, where the PU has an impact on the aero, while also going back to the wild west of the early 90s.

Keep traction control and ABS banned, but open up the suspension rules (under a cost cap) to allow for variable suspension. Bring back vibration mitigation solution and (most of all), allow the teams to have a GU-H powered fan. Completely nuts and sure to be dangerous.