2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[LionsHeart]

Here. Ready The artist of me is so-so.

https://ibb.co/VL8gjhN

[CjC]

Didn't Lando lose a engine from his pool? Maybe they should take the penalty here..

Wouldn’t Mexico or Brazil be a better place?

[AR3-GP]

Didn't Lando lose a engine from his pool? Maybe they should take the penalty here..

Wouldn’t Mexico or Brazil be a better place?

Mexico?

[CjC]

Didn't Lando lose a engine from his pool? Maybe they should take the penalty here..

Wouldn’t Mexico or Brazil be a better place?

Mexico?

Because of the looong main straight or do you disagree because of the high altitude?

[organic]

Wouldn’t Mexico or Brazil be a better place?

Mexico?

Because of the looong main straight or do you disagree because of the high altitude?

It's very difficult to overtake due to the thin air yes. causes many issues for the following car

[CjC]

Mexico?

Because of the looong main straight or do you disagree because of the high altitude?

It's very difficult to overtake due to the thin air yes. causes many issues for the following car

Yea fair does.
I was against taking an extra PU at Monza because the drs is less effective with the low drag wings

[mwillems]

Interesting thoughts people. I just realized for myself that I definitely won’t be able to draw any adequate conclusions until I see the rear wing and how the first two practices go.

Yes, in 2020 and 2021 we had a super-efficient straight-line chassis, but then we lost a lot in corners. In the last year and a half, we mostly lose in long slow corners, as before, but now we also limp on straight lines. Why am I so unsure, because I have no idea what the team will bring. And to what extent it can be put to good use. If it wasn't for a rainy weekend at Spa where the team bet on more down pressure, I would have had a better idea of ​​how well the team was able to implement a rear wing with a clipped top flap, plus there was also the option of using a less loaded beam wing.

I think there is not one here who believes that the team sometimes acts very conservatively. At the same time, I also understand that they know better, because they test a variety of options on the simulator and experiment. Out of 6-7 options, two will be chosen as the most effective and brought to the track to make the final choice.

I would also like to revisit the practice in Hungary, where the team found some specific settings, plus experimental details, to get more peak downforce. They really found it and quickly discovered that the car was starting to hit the bottom.

It turns out that the team needs to add more downforce from the bottom so that they can use wings with less loading without penalty. But my guess is that they still need to rework the chassis balance and handling in slow corners, and that's just through the suspension and steering.

Reading and delving into the words of Andrea Stella, I understand that they themselves would like to use wings with less loading without penalty for themselves, but then they lose a lot not only at the exit of corners, but also in the stability of the chassis during braking. Lando lost a lot in relation to Yuki precisely in long slow turns, but before that he was extremely fast in the first sector and it was clear that Yuki could not keep up Lando's pace, but then two consecutive slow turns and Lando loses so much that he is already catching up only towards the end of the straight, and there the time is up, it's time to slow down and turn. And so circle after circle.

Perhaps this is the main reason why I do not want to review this race again. I am sure that in the future the team will be more flexible in their approach to strategy and more likely to experiment and take risks.

About Monza: I'm ready for a tough weekend. Then I won't have a reason to be upset. Do not judge strictly. This is just my opinion.

Even at 100mph these cars will generate 750kg of downforce. Don't underestimate the inherent issues of a stalling diffuser in slow corners and since we also struggle in dirty air, it is possible that one potential problem is the way we are handling the airflow at these speeds. Possibly particular in relation to the behaviour of the tyres as we know the team have issues with the deformation. This is something that couldn't be mapped in the old tunnel but can in the new.

It is why I am less concerned about turns 1 and 2, hitting the second apex around 50-60 mph this takes away aerodynamic load largely apart from turn 1 entry, but maybe totally wrong, but it is a very good place to see if what issues we have.

I don't get upset by just opinions, but that's the past

Yes, there is such a moment. But I do not think that at speeds of 90-100 km / h the car creates a lot of downforce. There is still little of it, so I tend to think that the problem is not only aerodynamic, but also mechanical. Regarding the deformation of the tires: an interesting observation. But in slow corners, they are unlikely to deform as much as in fast corners, and there the McLaren is doing well. But I agree, tire deformation is important.

I wrote earlier that I hope to see a modification of the side pontoons in the area of ​​water slides. But my assumption is based on letting hot air in through the slots, and narrowing the channel of the water slides to speed up the air flow. This would increase the efficiency of the diffuser and the floor in particular. Rather, this is my interpretation of the 2012 McLaren version.

The good news is that the new wind tunnel is already up and running and testing the 2024 chassis. Hurrah, comrades!

I think we are crossing wires.

I am saying the same point about turns 1 and 2 being almost purely mechanical and that is why it is worth paying special attention to. Spa has challenges unique to Spa, Monza is a simpler track with different challenges, but still the same requirement for decent ride height to get over kerbs.

Let's speak about it after the qualifying and race, but I do not believe turns 1 and 2 will offer too harsh a challenge, unlike the straights and if this is the case it is quite telling. There is always talk of low speed corners. There was at Miami again, but if you look at the data, we actually weren't losing that much in the twisty section of Miami.

It is a weak spot, for sure, but it is not a huge deficit, not like the top speed.

[MrGapes]

Here. Ready The artist of me is so-so.

https://ibb.co/VL8gjhN

Genius stuff that

[MrGapes]

Didn't Lando lose a engine from his pool? Maybe they should take the penalty here..

Wouldn’t Mexico or Brazil be a better place?

Hmm I’d expect a few races earlier than that, that’s a whole lot of races to stretch with only 2 PU’s, need to remember the PU he lost was fresh, it hardly did any run time.

If not Monza, I’d hope Japan or Cota, I feel Qatar might be the best opportunity to be close to Max.

[CjC]

Didn't Lando lose a engine from his pool? Maybe they should take the penalty here..

Wouldn’t Mexico or Brazil be a better place?

Hmm I’d expect a few races earlier than that, that’s a whole lot of races to stretch with only 2 PU’s, need to remember the PU he lost was fresh, it hardly did any run time.

If not Monza, I’d hope Japan or Cota, I feel Qatar might be the best opportunity to be close to Max.

When did he loose it?

[MrGapes]

Wouldn’t Mexico or Brazil be a better place?

Hmm I’d expect a few races earlier than that, that’s a whole lot of races to stretch with only 2 PU’s, need to remember the PU he lost was fresh, it hardly did any run time.

If not Monza, I’d hope Japan or Cota, I feel Qatar might be the best opportunity to be close to Max.

When did he loose it?

In Bahrain with that Pneumatic pressure leak

[LionsHeart]

Even at 100mph these cars will generate 750kg of downforce. Don't underestimate the inherent issues of a stalling diffuser in slow corners and since we also struggle in dirty air, it is possible that one potential problem is the way we are handling the airflow at these speeds. Possibly particular in relation to the behaviour of the tyres as we know the team have issues with the deformation. This is something that couldn't be mapped in the old tunnel but can in the new.

It is why I am less concerned about turns 1 and 2, hitting the second apex around 50-60 mph this takes away aerodynamic load largely apart from turn 1 entry, but maybe totally wrong, but it is a very good place to see if what issues we have.

I don't get upset by just opinions, but that's the past

Yes, there is such a moment. But I do not think that at speeds of 90-100 km / h the car creates a lot of downforce. There is still little of it, so I tend to think that the problem is not only aerodynamic, but also mechanical. Regarding the deformation of the tires: an interesting observation. But in slow corners, they are unlikely to deform as much as in fast corners, and there the McLaren is doing well. But I agree, tire deformation is important.

I wrote earlier that I hope to see a modification of the side pontoons in the area of ​​water slides. But my assumption is based on letting hot air in through the slots, and narrowing the channel of the water slides to speed up the air flow. This would increase the efficiency of the diffuser and the floor in particular. Rather, this is my interpretation of the 2012 McLaren version.

The good news is that the new wind tunnel is already up and running and testing the 2024 chassis. Hurrah, comrades!

I think we are crossing wires.

I am saying the same point about turns 1 and 2 being almost purely mechanical and that is why it is worth paying special attention to. Spa has challenges unique to Spa, Monza is a simpler track with different challenges, but still the same requirement for decent ride height to get over kerbs.

Let's speak about it after the qualifying and race, but I do not believe turns 1 and 2 will offer too harsh a challenge, unlike the straights and if this is the case it is quite telling. There is always talk of low speed corners. There was at Miami again, but if you look at the data, we actually weren't losing that much in the twisty section of Miami.

It is a weak spot, for sure, but it is not a huge deficit, not like the top speed.

I think the truth is out there somewhere. McLaren races with gas in slow corners and loses more than it does with empty tanks, which is another key to understanding the overall pace problem. Perhaps here there is a large deformation of the tires, a higher tire temperature, an exit from the optimal temperature window. The tires go into a little overheating, which affects the pressure in the tires, and the overall grip also becomes less.

In medium-speed corners, there is more downforce and the tire contact patch increases. In fast corners, McLaren has no problems because the downforce is generous and the contact patch is consistently large, which allows you to drive well in fast sections, thereby masking tire problems. It is difficult to judge this through Red Bull, but the Mercedes warms up the tires more smoothly and softly, smoothly turns them on and keeps them well at the peak of the tires, therefore avoiding excessive deformation and overheating of the tires. The contact patch is more stable and larger. But this is my speculation.

[mwillems]

Yes, there is such a moment. But I do not think that at speeds of 90-100 km / h the car creates a lot of downforce. There is still little of it, so I tend to think that the problem is not only aerodynamic, but also mechanical. Regarding the deformation of the tires: an interesting observation. But in slow corners, they are unlikely to deform as much as in fast corners, and there the McLaren is doing well. But I agree, tire deformation is important.

I wrote earlier that I hope to see a modification of the side pontoons in the area of ​​water slides. But my assumption is based on letting hot air in through the slots, and narrowing the channel of the water slides to speed up the air flow. This would increase the efficiency of the diffuser and the floor in particular. Rather, this is my interpretation of the 2012 McLaren version.

The good news is that the new wind tunnel is already up and running and testing the 2024 chassis. Hurrah, comrades!

I think we are crossing wires.

I am saying the same point about turns 1 and 2 being almost purely mechanical and that is why it is worth paying special attention to. Spa has challenges unique to Spa, Monza is a simpler track with different challenges, but still the same requirement for decent ride height to get over kerbs.

Let's speak about it after the qualifying and race, but I do not believe turns 1 and 2 will offer too harsh a challenge, unlike the straights and if this is the case it is quite telling. There is always talk of low speed corners. There was at Miami again, but if you look at the data, we actually weren't losing that much in the twisty section of Miami.

It is a weak spot, for sure, but it is not a huge deficit, not like the top speed.

I think the truth is out there somewhere. McLaren races with gas in slow corners and loses more than it does with empty tanks, which is another key to understanding the overall pace problem. Perhaps here there is a large deformation of the tires, a higher tire temperature, an exit from the optimal temperature window. The tires go into a little overheating, which affects the pressure in the tires, and the overall grip also becomes less.

In medium-speed corners, there is more downforce and the tire contact patch increases. In fast corners, McLaren has no problems because the downforce is generous and the contact patch is consistently large, which allows you to drive well in fast sections, thereby masking tire problems. It is difficult to judge this through Red Bull, but the Mercedes warms up the tires more smoothly and softly, smoothly turns them on and keeps them well at the peak of the tires, therefore avoiding excessive deformation and overheating of the tires. The contact patch is more stable and larger. But this is my speculation.

Yes I think it is down to tyre deformation but not just contact patch but the way it affects outwash. I'm certain it's part of the problem. I'm curious to look at Monza and see how the car performs now. If badly at turns 1 and 2 then I think it is likely both Aero and Mechanical, if OK then its Aero.

[FittingMechanics]

I watched the hole race on Sunday on mute as my son was sleeping next to me, so I did not hear what Lando was saying on the radio when it started to rain after the start of the race. Did he decided to stay out, or did the team told him to stay out? I was a HUGE mistake, HUGEEEE - It cost us an easy podium, easy! (Ok ok, it was a crazy race, anything could have happened but still...)

I don't think anyone answered you. The team believed the rain would be light and quick to pass. They wanted to stay out with both cars (like Piastri managed) but Lando felt it was raining too heavily and thought the track will not dry up fast (he was wrong as it was faster on slicks by lap . He forced the issue on lap 3 and pit. This is probably second worst possible outcome as only thing worse is pitting on lap 4. Best obviously would be pit on lap 1 but that was no longer an option.

Before we fully turn our attention to Monza -- I think there is an issue that is going unnoticed. i was reviewing Zandvoort -- and should we conclude that Lando is not very good at assessing rain conditions? He is obviously phenomenal at driving in the rain...but after Russia 2021 and now here, he's chosen to stay out instead of coming in despite obviously terrible conditions. He has stayed out for many laps after conditions have clearly become untenable for slicks. Now the team has a lot more data than he does and still could not make the right decision but ultimately the final call comes down to the driver in the conditions. Maybe this will come with experience and why master like HAM and ALO are as good as they are...

I understand that hindsight is 20/20 but still....

In Sochi - it was a very difficult decision to decide to pit and lose the lead of the race. I don't think you can blame him for that. Hamilton did not pit in Hungary that time it was bone dry and I don't think we would say he is bad at judging the conditions. In Sochi, Hamilton was probably on a "do whatever Lando doesn't" instruction as he was more then a pit ahead of P3. This allowed Hamilton to gamble and go on inters. Half a lap later, Lando was well behind Hamilton if he pits which forced the team to try and brave it out as they would lose P1 if they pitted and there were opportunities to keep P1. For example any crash would be a SC and a probable red flag with Lando in the lead. It is a miracle no one crashed at that time.

That being said, I do think Lando needs to take a step back and trust the team more. In this situation, by lap 3 it was too late to pit and he shouldn't have forced the issue.

This video sums it up well (might not show up but it's the 10 Minutes of Zandvoort video from F1). Both the drivers did absolutely nothing wrong, and gave good feedback on the conditions. Yet again, the McLaren strategy team bottled it with vague, indecisive communication and decisions, topped off with the bizarre call on lap 3 to Lando that makes you wonder what race they're even watching. In fact, It was Lando that semi-rescued his race by overruling the team and boxing.

Lando did not semi rescue his race as Piastri ended up ahead of Lando by the time Lando switched back to softs. So the strategy Piastri was on was superior to pitting on lap 3 which is what Lando did. Lando would have been better off staying after lap 3, suffer a couple more laps but wouldn't lose 40s due to pitstops to inters and back to softs.

Piastri ended up behind Lando because he flat spotted his tyres trying to overtake Magnussen on lap 15, only to have safety car in lap 16.

[Seerix]

There was no difference in track conditions on lap 2 and lap 3. I think Lando either had to decide faster, or listen to the team (I know, easier said than done, I'm not blaming him). Neither happened and it was the worst outcome (almost). Both drivers were reporting very wet conditions, so perhaps team should've stopped at least one of them to split the strategy.
As we saw in that F1 Zandvoort rain video, a lot of teams thought same as McLaren, that the rain will be short and light. But quite a lot of drivers forced the pit on lap 2. To be honest, I think Perez just jumped a gun and pitted ASAP and got lucky (along with some other lap 1 pitters).

Sochi, to this day I think was an ok decision to stay out. It did not work out, but sometimes result does not support logic. It's how statistics work.

I'd just like to see McLaren taking the opportunity, when given one. You never know when the next one will arise. Curious about Monza for sure. Let's go, couple more podiums this season would be nice. McLaren being the one who takes a win from RB would be awesome