2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[super cool]

Where are you living? In mars? Next 15 years will be ferrari renault redbul and mercedes. Also because is and will be an engine formula. The rest will be only satelite teams. Thats why i wont watch f1 much, expecially when alonso ia gone and riciardo in renault will not be competitive. Ciao ciao

If RB doesn't have a winning car before the one after next regulation changes they might pull out. I'm not counting on them. Mercedes as F1 team? Who knows if they are in for the marketing or for the heritage, again we will know more after 2021 and before the rule change after that.

F1 is such horribly structured business that it's on a verge of cannibalism really. Disproportionate funds allocation has allowed successful teams to fold down over night pretty much. You have bad few seasons? You are done. Williams was the first, McLaren is next in the line.

Do you think NFL would allow Patriots to fold let alone Cowboys or 49ers? Never. Would NBA allow Heat or Spurs to fold let alone Knicks or Lakers? Never. That's what US sports leagues do right, they recognize majority of their teams (franchises) as integral part to success. Take a look how NFL or NBA distributes the money among the teams, take a look what NBA does so small or weak teams can adjust and become contenders down the line.

All of these things are missing in F1 and that's why it will be in ruins for quite a while. They do not backup their teams properly cause they don't see them as integral part of the mechanism (hence the reason there were so many failed team ventures in F1 over last decade), they don't help small teams to prosper or have a chance, some teams were used for flipping like real estate (Marussia), so much is unregulated at how whole system works and system itself allows a lot of blackmailing the F1 itself. It's quite stupid how they all have it setup honestly. That's why we are stuck with uncompetitive grid with only 4 engines suppliers out of whom 3 have their own dedicated team and the rest of the field that tries to stay alive by building cars, out of all those teams only 1 can build a competitive car without manufacturer support but that is going to change next season. Next season will also change how many teams will actually build their own cars as TR, Haas, Sauber and probably RP will be b-specs.

[Fulcrum]

The question McLaren need to ask themselves.

How does our performance - especially management performance - from 2009 to today differ from Williams circa 2000-2009? Hint - I don't see much difference.

Williams 2000 - 2005 - the BMW era
3rd-3rd-2nd-2nd-4th-5th

McLaren 2009 - 2014 - the (end of) Mercedes era
3rd-2nd-2nd-3rd-5th-5th

Williams 2006 - 2009 - the customer era (begins)
8th-4th-8th-7th

McLaren 2015 - 2018 - Honda power, then becoming a customer
9th-6th-9th-6th

The parallels are eerily similar. My point in drawing this comparison: we know where Williams went after 2009. Circumstances got really dire. Where once the team won Constructors Championships (late 1990's), to winning races (up to 2004), to getting the occasional podium (up to 2008), they then entered a period of 4 years without any semblance of competitiveness - outside of the freakish Maldonado victory in Spain 2012. Likewise, where once they had been able to hire - or spurn in some cases - World Champion drivers, eventually they were willing to take pay drivers, and or drivers with package deals for engines (Bottas).

The switch to Mercedes power in 2014 masked the damage those many years of poor results had inflicted on the team - loss of institutional memory, inability to attract major sponsors and top level drivers, loss of technical capacity, poor leadership.

Compare this with McLaren today. Last World championship - 1998. Last competitive year - 2012. Last podium - the 1st race of 2014. The past 4 years have been just as bad as Williams worst years after 2008. Next year they will employ a driver pairing without an F1 win between them for the first time since 1997; likewise, the last time they didn't have a World Champion on their books was 2006. Assuming they don't hire Raikkonen - which wouldn't be a good sign either.

How will things improve from this point onward? The driver pairings are not better than what they have had. The money situation can not be better than what it once was; they no longer have recent prestige, World Champions or works status. This period of sustained poor performance must be taking a toll on the talented employees in Woking, some of whom must be getting ready to jump ship for better opportunities.

I'm not trying to be gloomy, but this situation is really ominous. In my opinion, it will take something inspired (driver or creative or both), or lucky (a works engine deal with BMW/VW/etc..), but most likely years of hard slog to get back to the front of the grid from this point.

[Darth-Piekus]

Mclaren has been in this situation the years between 1994 and 1997 and I didn't see any of those doom and gloom happening. It happened also between 1981 to 1983 and again between 1968 to 1972.

[Ground Effect]

It's a bad period, but I believe there is a great awareness that things have to be restarted from the ground up. There's clear intent from Mclaren, but the fact is in F1 there are no quick fixes. The hiring of James Key, a real talent in the sport shows they're making efforts. I believe Key left Toro Rosso because of the strengthening of the association with Red Bull in terms of listed parts. He could stay there and keep a paycheck, while being told he's the heir to the Newey throne. But he wants a challenge, I believe. That's the sort of people Mclaren need. Ferrari have had their wilderness periods as well, as have Mclaren in the past. It's a long road ahead, but their not just folding their hands, far from it. Everything for the rest of the year is for 2019.

[Ground Effect]

I think Mclaren's should go with Ocon, hopefully for 2 years and have some stability with drivers.

[bauc]

Worst car since I follow F1 and cheer for Mclaren which is 21 years to date. Even the disastrous MP4-24, in 2009, first season with KERS got good by the 2nd half of the season & they were winning, but this is just too much, especially on high speed circus like Spa and I'm sure same will apply for Monza as well

[Fulcrum]

Mclaren has been in this situation the years between 1994 and 1997 and I didn't see any of those doom and gloom happening. It happened also between 1981 to 1983 and again between 1968 to 1972.

• McLaren had Mercedes backing from 1995.

• In 1982 they had Niki Lauda as a driver (World Champion) and were using a very decent Cosworth engine. They won races in 1982 and 1983.

• How relevant can anything from 1968 be to an argument about Formula 1 practically 50 years later?

[Darth-Piekus]

Relevant enough to show that they were again in the same situation where they bounced back. I don't see why they can't bounce back again. You don't seem to understand how big of a team they are and who is backing them in terms of money.

You sound like you revel in their suffering.

[Darth-Piekus]

Technically the worst car in the history of F1 was a car of a team of a former playboy.

[Pany]

Yes they will bounce back. Not before 2024. Maybe

[Darth-Piekus]

They actually have two chances one next year with a full reset on aerodynamics and another on 2020 with the changes to engines.

[Big Tea]

I hope they get Bob Fearnley involved. If Key arrives and Alonso leaving, and possibly SV too, it can be a real separation from 'then' and 'now' and be the start of the new era.
Things will be very different next year, I just hope different for the better. A year with midfield drivers may even help things by taking some of the heat out of it.

Who knows, Alonso could come back once they find their feet.

[McG]

Such doom and gloom, which I don't think is deserved because McLaren have shown they are doing a lot about it.

Comparisons with Williams is a moot point because Williams are completely different and don't have the strength and depth of McLaren. But McLaren will be losing milions of fans at the moment. The glory followers will be gone, can be seen on here already.

Ferrari have had their bad moments. Ferrari hasn't won a championship in 11 years. Mercedes will have their bad moments if they stay in F1 as a full team for long enough (through lots of rule changes). Mercedes have had bad patches with McLaren by being unreliable and Ron Dennis would usually take the blame saying it was a McLaren exhaust that failed or something.

F1 management are partly to blame for McLaren's situation. The engine rules make it impossible for other manufacturers to join F1, now they are thinking about extending these engines beyond 2021. Look at Red Bull having to take a massive risk in going with Honda because they have no choice really. Same with McLaren, they took the risk but had to take another with Renault hoping Renault will improve. Liberty are just as bad as Bernie. If they really keep these engines beyond 2021 then it shows they are happy with the money they are getting and that's it. It is a business after all. It'll only get worse once STR and Force India become more solid B teams, and maybe Sauber will become a Ferrari B team too.

One criticism that is quite unclear is
what the hell is Podromu doing? Supposed to be great and comes up with this car? Surely the matrix system wasn't so bad that his talent has been filtered by 2 seconds or something. As Ant on the Skypad was showing today the car doesn't look bad to drive, Alonso said the same. Seems like Podromu is nothing without Newey.

[McG]

They actually have two chances one next year with a full reset on aerodynamics and another on 2020 with the changes to engines.

Horner said it's more likely they won't change engine rules til at least 2023.

[M840TR]

This thread just explodes after every qualifying.