2024 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 28 - 30

[TFSA]

Lando blocks his front tyres on first attempt and goes from being on the inside to being on the outside of the corner during braking. What does evasive action look like for you? Car only goes left or right, can’t jump or fly.

On the 2nd attempt Lando makes the apex and turns properly, hard to call that a dive bomb, he’s also ahead at the apex and thus can practically make Max’s car explode and not be penalized. 100% Max should have been penalized for this one as well as he definitely gained an advantage by being off track.

Your post here confuses me.

Before the crash on lap 64, there were action on three laps: Lap 55, 59 and 63

You say that Lando "on his first attempt" blocked his tires and went from the inside to the outside. That certainly didn't happen on lap 59, where he went for the inside, not the outside, so i can only assume that you by "first attempt" are referring to lap 55 - because what you just described perfectly describes what happened on Lap 55.

But then you say that "2nd attempt Lando makes the apex". But if Lap 55 was his first attempt, then the 2nd attempt had to be Lap 59 - that was the lap that he went off track.

So I'm confused about which laps you are talking about when referring to "first" and "2nd" attempt, unless you for some reason are skipping over Lap 59 as an attempt.

I've just rewatched the incidents, and there was certainly no evasive action from Lando on lap 59 and 63. Only Lap 55.

[dialtone]

Watch the video from Jolyon and my 1st and 2nd references are regarding the sequence in his analysis.

[TFSA]

Watch the video from Jolyon and my 1st and 2nd references are regarding the sequence in his analysis.

I've watched it, and this isn't any more specific. He analyzes all 4 incidents (Lap 55 at 1:38, Lap 59 at 3:23, Lap 63 at 6:24 and Lap 64 at 9:30), and you described what i believe to be two incidents where there's another incident in between.

You gotta be more specific, otherwise we're just wasting time and forum space. I'm still confused about which two incidents you're referring to exactly.

[dialtone]

Watch the video from Jolyon and my 1st and 2nd references are regarding the sequence in his analysis.

I've watched it, and this isn't any more specific. He analyzes all 4 incidents (Lap 55 at 1:38, Lap 59 at 3:23, Lap 63 at 6:24 and Lap 64 at 9:30), and you described what i believe to be two incidents where there's another incident in between.

You gotta be more specific, otherwise we're just wasting time and forum space. I'm still confused about which two incidents you're referring to exactly.

Honestly not interested. As I said I 100% agree with Jolyon, aside from his liking of dive bombs. Norris takes evasive action at least once, should be penalized, and was then crashed into and was penalized.

[venkyhere]

Er, no.

Going up or downhill has no effect on aero with regards to ground's coordinate system, if there's no wind it does not matter.

Thanks for clarifying.
However, the lingering doubt I have :
The wake of the car - air is being thrown up-and-behind. Considering the difference in angle at which this wake hits the 'ambient', plain road v/s upslope ; won't the weight of the air column acting vertically down from above, have an easier job 'resisting' the upwards thrust of the air being thrown 'up' from the car ? (and hence, effectively the air stream around the rear wing behaving as though it's a wing with less AoA)

The 'no effect at all' answer is based on :
1. imagination is wrong (weight of ambient air column)
Or
2. too negligible even by the fine granularity with which F1 aero is analyzed

[Stu]

My only contribution to this is that they were both racing & it danced around the bounds of what is permitted…
Until after the big contact…
At that point MV blatantly tries to (and succeeds!) force LN off of the track, in full knowledge of his own car being damaged (tyre off rim) & not knowing whether LN’s car was (at that point it didn’t look as though LN knew that he was about to suffer a puncture). That should have been an immediate DSQ with points.
Using the car as a weapon!

[TimW]

UnTiL aFtEr ThE bIg CoNtAcT…
At ThAt PoInT mV bLaTaNtLy TrIeS tO (aNd SuCcEeDs!) FoRcE lN oFf Of ThE tRaCk, In FuLl KnOwLeDgE oF hIs OwN cAr BeInG dAmAgEd (TyRe OfF rIm) & nOt KnOwInG wHeThEr Ln’s CaR wAs (At ThAt PoInT iT dIdN’T lOoK aS tHoUgH lN kNeW tHaT hE wAs AbOuT tO sUfFeR a PuNcTuRe). ThAt ShOuLd HaVe BeEn An ImMeDiAtE dSq WiTh PoInTs.
UsInG tHe CaR aS a WeApOn!

Fixed that for you.

[Stu]

UnTiL aFtEr ThE bIg CoNtAcT…
At ThAt PoInT mV bLaTaNtLy TrIeS tO (aNd SuCcEeDs!) FoRcE lN oFf Of ThE tRaCk, In FuLl KnOwLeDgE oF hIs OwN cAr BeInG dAmAgEd (TyRe OfF rIm) & nOt KnOwInG wHeThEr Ln’s CaR wAs (At ThAt PoInT iT dIdN’T lOoK aS tHoUgH lN kNeW tHaT hE wAs AbOuT tO sUfFeR a PuNcTuRe). ThAt ShOuLd HaVe BeEn An ImMeDiAtE dSq WiTh PoInTs.
UsInG tHe CaR aS a WeApOn!

Fixed that for you.

?? Doesn’t that just make it more difficult to read ??

[Just_a_fan]

My only contribution to this is that they were both racing & it danced around the bounds of what is permitted…
Until after the big contact…
At that point MV blatantly tries to (and succeeds!) force LN off of the track, in full knowledge of his own car being damaged (tyre off rim) & not knowing whether LN’s car was (at that point it didn’t look as though LN knew that he was about to suffer a puncture). That should have been an immediate DSQ with points.
Using the car as a weapon!

I agree. Max's actions to deliberately block Lando at that point, including crowding off the track, should have warranted a further penalty.

[TimW]

UnTiL aFtEr ThE bIg CoNtAcT…
At ThAt PoInT mV bLaTaNtLy TrIeS tO (aNd SuCcEeDs!) FoRcE lN oFf Of ThE tRaCk, In FuLl KnOwLeDgE oF hIs OwN cAr BeInG dAmAgEd (TyRe OfF rIm) & nOt KnOwInG wHeThEr Ln’s CaR wAs (At ThAt PoInT iT dIdN’T lOoK aS tHoUgH lN kNeW tHaT hE wAs AbOuT tO sUfFeR a PuNcTuRe). ThAt ShOuLd HaVe BeEn An ImMeDiAtE dSq WiTh PoInTs.
UsInG tHe CaR aS a WeApOn!

Fixed that for you.

?? Doesn’t that just make it more difficult to read ??

I was just hoping your post was meant as sarcasm, or trolling. You might have noticed his rear tire blew, which does have a non-negligible impact on the cornering ability of an F1 car.

I guess your 'blatantly tries to force of the track' refers to MV suddenly opening his steering. But that is simply a reaction to his rear tire popping of the rim, as is clearly visible in the footage.

I blame MV for the overly aggressive defending, which ultimately resulted in the collision. But the accusation that he used his car as a weapon is ridiculous.

[DDopey]

Hmmm

[Stu]

Fixed that for you.

?? Doesn’t that just make it more difficult to read ??

I was just hoping your post was meant as sarcasm, or trolling. You might have noticed his rear tire blew, which does have a non-negligible impact on the cornering ability of an F1 car.

I guess your 'blatantly tries to force of the track' refers to MV suddenly opening his steering. But that is simply a reaction to his rear tire popping of the rim, as is clearly visible in the footage.

I blame MV for the overly aggressive defending, which ultimately resulted in the collision. But the accusation that he used his car as a weapon is ridiculous.

No, Tim. It was the move along the following straight as LN attempted to pass the obviously damaged MV.
The racing was hard (as I said - borderline…), but that move was deliberate. At that point LN still looked to have an intact car and his tyre had not yet started to shred.

[chrisc90]

?? Doesn’t that just make it more difficult to read ??

I was just hoping your post was meant as sarcasm, or trolling. You might have noticed his rear tire blew, which does have a non-negligible impact on the cornering ability of an F1 car.

I guess your 'blatantly tries to force of the track' refers to MV suddenly opening his steering. But that is simply a reaction to his rear tire popping of the rim, as is clearly visible in the footage.

I blame MV for the overly aggressive defending, which ultimately resulted in the collision. But the accusation that he used his car as a weapon is ridiculous.

No, Tim. It was the move along the following straight as LN attempted to pass the obviously damaged MV.
The racing was hard (as I said - borderline…), but that move was deliberate. At that point LN still looked to have an intact car and his tyre had not yet started to shred.

Max was getting off the racing line out the way of the alpines.

If lando believed his car was still ok at the time, why would you overtake a visibly damaged red bull off the racing line? Makes no sense

[organic]

[DDopey]

So the week after, the drivers get a say, and almost unanimous (as far as I can find and read) find the 10 sec. penalty too much. But leave it to the British F1 press to chastise Max.