Scuderia Ferrari 2012

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Speedster
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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f1316 wrote:I'm not sure that the Ferrari is particularly agreeable with the tyres, more that they've been extremely efficient with everything else apart from sheer pace. With Alonso they've been able to capitalise most of the time on the issues others are having with various things, which simply would not have been the case if their pitstops, starts, strategy hadn't been generally pretty spot on (with a few exceptions, granted).

What I think a lot of people are missing, however, is how important it actually is to be running at the front. I'm not sure Vettel's race pace, for example, was really any slower this time than in Bahrain, it was just impossible to tell because he was always in traffic. Being at the front allowed him to judge his race last time, even against someone with more sets of tyres, and he could push in clean air when given the chance.

Much as I don't think it helps Ferrari, I think being on the front few rows is going to become increasingly important because a consequence of the close running and strategy options the tyres give you is that unless you get away from the pack at the start significantly, you have a lot of problems with traffic after stops.

It is, in my opinion, an unrepresentative picture that Hamilton's qualifying has not yet yielded success, since a combination of penalties, weather and poor starts have made him unable to use it as he normally might. But unless Alonso can get close to the front-running pace in quali consistently, we may seem him unable to maxmise his relative good race pace.

Apologies for the length of the post, just a lot of thoughts to dump ;)
Agreed with this. Of course, Ferrari's decisions and actions aren't always perfect, but you cannot expect that in a real time environment with lots of different factors (one always should aim for it though), but they haven't had any major screw ups and have maximized performance and position. It might prove to be very important, the Ferrari did seem faster yesterday than before in this season, so if they are indeed able to be in the mix again, they start on a level playing field (even in front of a lot of competitors) even though their car was not nearly as fast.

One cannot expect that to last though, Hamilton will get wins and better positions, Vettel probably too (although I've yet to be convinced by the Red Bull, they are so much slower on the straights that they need to start on front and have a perfect race to score major points it seems). I'm sure Fernando will continue to maximize performance and he and Hamilton have really shown the best consistency, but for both they need to show consistency at the front to be able to fight for the title.

ESPImperium
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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I think its safe to say that Ferrari will update the F2012 as much as they can get away with this year. However one thing is for sure, Alonso is dragging the car into areas of the grid and race it shouldnt be. However if he strings together enough P5 and above finishes without a DNF he could, and i mean, just could have a outside shot when it comes to "squeeky bum time" as Sir Alex Ferguson calls it at the buisness end of the year.

I have long been critical of Ferraris CFD correlation to its Tunnel numbers and real life numbers. I think that Ferrari need to get a few aero rakes and such on specific areas on the car now in FP1. Also they need the team to justify it. I think Pat Fry is doing a job of re-orginiseation, and is looking at a slimmer techn ichal department at Maranello. I think that Ferrari are also looking at a new Cheif Operating Officer as well to work allong with Pat Fry. In effect someone that is the same level as Fry but has different responsibilities, in effect a team manager, someone who operates the race team and factory whilst Fry operates the Technichal team. I think someone like Adam Parr would be brilliant here as he restructured Williams, and could do more with Ferraris money and resource.

In otherwords, Ferrari need a new structure, one that is slimmer and more proactive and less reactive. The team are too big, at arround 1800 including engine and KERS staff, the engine and KERS staff number arround a rumored 450 to 500 for engine and KERS is arround 120 to 150. That leaves Ferraris "Chassis" team at arround 1150, whitch is too large now, Red Bull technology have arround 900 for its 3 areas; Chassis, Gearbox and KERS. This is a number that Ferrari should aim for i think.

The structure that they should have is Dominicalli reporting to Di Montezemolo. Fry, Parr and a Powertrain Manager reporting to Stefano. With the likes of Tombazis and Bigios reporting to Fry for instance. Dominicali would be used as a hindge point for the drivers and looking at ways to make Ferrari better thurgh young drivers and pushing Ferrari F1 on the F1 board and the likes of FOTA for instance, if Ferrari were a member.

Dominicali should not be running the team day to day, he should be wining and dining the current sponsors and and potential sponsors/partners. He should also be the one dealing in the driver market, and the one on the pit wall at races that makes the "team order" decisions.

Ferrari have too much to fix, however if they get it the structure and technichal aspects fixed this year, next year they could come out flying. However they need to ballance this with Alonso going for a WDC as well.

As for their other driver, Massa i think is just about to race his final races in a red car. I find it funny Sutil was at Barcelona, and was talking to a couple of guys in red outfits. I think its only a matter of time before Massa is booted for Sutil for 10 races before Ferrari try to get Webber, Perez or Maldanado and Sutil is left to go to Sauber if its Perez or put out to grass again to try and get a seat at another team.

Alsono is seemingly getting slighty involved as he wants a driver that is as quick as him to push him as he feels it could make him even better and even quicker.

Summing up; Ferrari need to sort out their technichal deparetment and resource and numbers, the teams structure and get a better #2 driver. All fixable, one quickly, the other two require a little more time.

Speedster
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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ESPImperium wrote:Alsono is seemingly getting slighty involved as he wants a driver that is as quick as him to push him as he feels it could make him even better and even quicker.
He did back Massa quite categorically though, a few days before the Spain GP. Also, Massa was extremely unlucky this weekend, his race pace wasn't bad (he still has very good starts as well, even this season). Were it not for traffic, he would've most likely made it to Q3.

bhall
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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ESPImperium wrote:[Everything you said]
That's pretty much happening.

donskar
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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@ESPImperium: good post. One quibble: if RBR had an engine department as large as Ferrari's, the team sizes would be a bit more comparable. Ferrari designs, builds and develops their own engines AND supplies other teams. RBR is free of that load.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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bhallg2k wrote:
ESPImperium wrote:[Everything you said]
That's pretty much happening.
Let's not forget McLaren's former Head of Aerodynamics David Sanchez is coming to Maranello too. =D>

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Chuckjr
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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2 tenths down second sector. Takes pole by 5 tenths.
Let's hope Alonso has the same magic this year.
Bring on Monaco!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-X45KU2 ... ata_player
Watching F1 since 1986.

Crabbia
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:
ESPImperium wrote:[Everything you said]
That's pretty much happening.
Let's not forget McLaren's former Head of Aerodynamics David Sanchez is coming to Maranello too. =D>
There is a huge Working Maranello migration. From ESP's post and new reports it is obvious there is a huge push to develop ferrari's aero department.

My concern is that whenever you hear of a new member it seems to be just from McLaren. have i got it wrong? is fry just filling ferrari's top structures with his old teammates because it suits him or is this genuinely good for Ferrari?

Shouldn't they be 'cherry picking' from the entire field?
A wise man once told me you cant polish a turd...

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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@Espi

When did Ferrari have 1150 people working in its Chassis department? 2008 maybe.
I think that figure is closer 700 now.
More could have been done.
David Purley

shelly
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:
ESPImperium wrote:[Everything you said]
That's pretty much happening.
Let's not forget McLaren's former Head of Aerodynamics David Sanchez is coming to Maranello too. =D>
I think Mclaren head of aero is Doug Mckiernan and he is staying at woking.
twitter: @armchair_aero

ESPImperium
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:@Espi

When did Ferrari have 1150 people working in its Chassis department? 2008 maybe.
I think that figure is closer 700 now.
Its "Chassis" department now includes its Clienti department and there are arround 200 people there. The active department for running the team this year is arround 950.

Its the spagetthi structure of Maranello, where each strand dosnt have a clue where it should be going to and who it crosses to get its means.

One thing that has also been thought of at Maranello that is a weakness now is that the physical geography of the factories and such are giving them lead time delays, this may be a day or two, but in F1 terms thats quite big as many of the teams now have much of their structure and workforce under one roof. Ferrari have things split into many different buildings, ive heard as many as 7 buildings.

This makes communication slightly more difficult. And that is where theres also been a failing at Ferrari.

Much can be fixed quickly, however there is some things that will take a little more time, and with a $308m budget, things can be fixed sliughtly faster than some teams. However the fact that the 3rd poorest team in Sauber almost beat them on oughtright pace this year is slightly embarrasing. And in terms of Budget, Williams beat them on oughtright pace as well, Williams have a budget of arround $115m.

.poz
.poz
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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bhallg2k wrote:I'm pretty sure it's all automated. The wheel guns are connected to the light system, and when each is withdrawn the system goes green.
Yes and no. I have read that wheel guns light green light on a supervisor remote then he push a button to give green light to the driver.

I think it' the guy in the top right who seems to do nothing

Edit: yes it's him, you can spot the remote cable from 0:03 to 0:05

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLNMeyVGKnA[/youtube]

f1316
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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Is $308m still accurate? Surely their RRA defines that they spend less than that. I was under the impression that $300m was the amount teams were spending at the height of high costs in F1.

ESPImperium
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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Accurate as thats the figure i have from the Sports Pro Black Book. Verified, relyable and independant source.

Its arround €240m that Ferrari have, and i think that its Euros that the 300m limit was set at.

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2012 - not the car!

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Montmelo

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