Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[Raptor22]

Prost,
Is not as bad a manager as he is recorded to be. There were a great many challenges that lead to the failure of Team ProstF1 and not all of them were a result of bad management.
Those challenges were Peugeot and the French Government, both of whom promised backing that was never delivered in full. Thereafter it was a matter of finding funds continuously. Also his hands were tied by whom he could recruit.

I think if Prost were to start up his team now, under budget restricted conditions he would be far more successful.
But ultimately he must take the rap for failure of the team. That does not make him a bad manager though.

[Miguel]

How could Renault accept that basically all of the team's drivers were contracted to the principal of the same team?

18 wins in the last 6 years, 2 WDC and 2 WCC, and with at most the 4th budget (way behind Ferrari, Toyota and McLaren). Renault has probably the 2nd best results in the XXI century, although McLaren could say something. Furthermore, Alonso only started earning big cash in McLaren.

I agree that the conflict of interest is clear and alarming, but somehow, until yesterday, Flavio managed to get the work done. I fear that's because Pat Symonds was on his side, though. It really seems like Flavio knew who to ask the important questions he didn't know how to answer.

EDIT: I forgot about Fisi's wins! It's 20 wins, then, counting Singapore 2008.

[mcdenife]

My guess is that it would at least require a full WMSC to retract it. A new FIA president couldn't do it unilaterally and alone.

Yes, so the new Pres will need to call a full wmsc pronto, because Garcia makes a very valid point. Legally the FIA is on very shaky ground with regards to European law Particularly with regards the severe impact on Flav's livelyhood and commercial interest, despite there being little or no evidence and more importantly, nor was there a defence. And before you all start I will reiterate, a none contest from Renault does not constitute an admission of guilt and neither does the full apology from Pat regarding 'his involvement' or NP's statement.
In effect he has been declared guilty without being tried or convicted and serious sanctions placed on his businesses and commercial interests as a result. I dont think this is the end of this issue by any stretch.

[ISLAMATRON]

I'm inclined to agree in principle with what SZ and others have opined, that this whole fiasco was just a means for Max to get rid of Flav. Sure, it's conjecture, but the indirect evidence is there to support it.

SZ is now staying out of this thread - so far as I'm concerned matters have turned out exactly as predicted in a manner consistent with my earlier reasoning. The hysterical reactions of many of you aren't just only as I suggested they'd be, they're precisely as the FIA intended.

Proof above all that Max is excellent at his job - guarding the FIA's interests. He'll be very hard to replace.

It is not a matter of "hysterical reactions", if Flav gave Mosley the rope with which to hang him who really cares if Mosley was gunning for him the whole time? That is the real big picture... who cares about who leaked what when... if Flav didnt do the deed there would be nothing to leak.

[SZ]

Mosley was gunning for him the whole time?

Right.

if Flav didnt do the deed there would be nothing to leak.

Wrong.

You're still quite unreasonably inflexible on this point.

[vall]

I'm inclined to agree in principle with what SZ and others have opined, that this whole fiasco was just a means for Max to get rid of Flav. Sure, it's conjecture, but the indirect evidence is there to support it.

SZ is now staying out of this thread - so far as I'm concerned matters have turned out exactly as predicted in a manner consistent with my earlier reasoning. The hysterical reactions of many of you aren't just only as I suggested they'd be, they're precisely as the FIA intended.

Proof above all that Max is excellent at his job - guarding the FIA's interests. He'll be very hard to replace.

It is not a matter of "hysterical reactions", if Flav gave Mosley the rope with which to hang him who really cares if Mosley was gunning for him the whole time? That is the real big picture... who cares about who leaked what when... if Flav didnt do the deed there would be nothing to leak.

Way was not MS banned for life after Jerez 1997? I still wait to see the full evidence for the case (EDIT: crash-gate). PS gets 5 year, Flav life ban? What makes PS less guilty than Flav? It must be that PS said it was Flav's idea?

[WhiteBlue]

Well good or bad, Briatore is gone. Onto his replacement.

Both Alain Prost and David Richards have talked to Renault and now Prost is reported to be close to a deal. My question is this: When each man ran his own team, didn't Prost fail while Richards was successful? David must have said 'No.'

Richards is now a CEO of a full on auto company. Getting back into F1 would be a step backwards.

Hmm, isn't he chairman of Aston Martin and Dr. Ulrich Bez CEO? http://www.astonmartin.com/eng/thecompany

[Conceptual]

Does anyone have any info beyond the pure speculation that has been posted? Although I appreciate the educated guesses, I did not get a solid answer as to what drivers are currently under the Briatore umbrella....

[roost89]

Does anyone have any info beyond the pure speculation that has been posted? Although I appreciate the educated guesses, I did not get a solid answer as to what drivers are currently under the Briatore umbrella....

From here: http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=219

It says that Webber, Heikki and Alonso are under his management. Although I have seen other drivers but I can't remember where they were named.

[Giblet]

Does anyone have any info beyond the pure speculation that has been posted? Although I appreciate the educated guesses, I did not get a solid answer as to what drivers are currently under the Briatore umbrella....

Webber and kovi in f1 not sure about junior level.

Alonso I don't think is any longer associated with Flav. I am pretty sure that when he went to Mclaren Flav was surprised as the rest of us. Wasn't a brokered deal, that's for sure.

[andartop]

After that judgement, I think I'll open my bank. I hire someone to cheat on people and steal their money, sack them if a scandal comes up and everyone's laughing. This is an even better plan than creating an hedge fund! Anyone interested?

Have you ever dealt with a bank?
This IS what they do!
The only difference is that they do NOT sack anyone if a scandal comes up. Instead, they give themselves huge bonuses.
A great business plan indeed, foolproof.

[vall]

[I still wait to see the full evidence for the case (EDIT: crash-gate). PS gets 5 year, Flav life ban? What makes PS less guilty than Flav? It must be that PS said it was Flav's idea?

I read PS' letter to FIA. He doesn't even mention Flav. He says it was NPjr's idea and that he did not turn down the idea, but made the plan. It was mysterious witness that Renault found, that said Flav new.

[WhiteBlue]

Pat Symmonds letter to the FIA from Jamesallen.com

In mitigation I would like to acknowledge my role in this incident. I was the one
who, when the idea was first suggested to me by Nelson Piquet Jr , should have
dismissed it immediately.

It is to my eternal regret and shame that I did not do so. I can only say that I did it out of a misguided devotion to my team and not for any personal gain whatsoever. I consider the role I have played in bringing the team to where it is today to be my life’s work. I started the nucleus of the team 28 years ago with only 19 other people. Today it has grown to an organisation that directly employs over 500 people and supports innumerable local and international businesses.

The last thing that I ever wanted to do was to jeopardise that team and the many people to whom I had an overwhelming responsibility. In a single action I have destroyed the high reputation I have built up during a 33 year career in motor sport. I am a competitive person who worked in a high pressure environment. This can, at times, cloud one’s judgement. I have always tried to be an honest person, a fact I hope you will give me credit for by witness of my statements to the stewards in Belgium. On that night in Singapore last year I made a mistake the consequences of which I could never have imagined at the time. For that mistake I can only offer all of you, and all those touched by the action I was involved in, my profound apology.

[WhiteBlue]

This is a 100% testimony of the guilt. Symmonds tried to protect Briatore obviously and shoved the blame for the idea to Picquet. That is not very credible. I believe that it is a bit of windows dressing that he does for his own ego.

[Ray]

Why was MS not banned for life after Jerez 1997? I still wait to see the full evidence for the case (EDIT: crash-gate). PS gets 5 years, Flav life ban? What makes PS less guilty than Flav? It must be that PS said it was Flav's idea?

To that end, why was Junior not banned? He after all did drive the car and gun it spinning the car into the wall. He's more guilty that either Flav or Pat and they give him bullsh*t immunity? I think immunity pleas are BS, same with the old trick of 'temporary insanity' and 'I was under pressure'. Doesn't change the lack of integrity or the consequences of someone actions, or what is right and wrong. Junior should have been hit just as hard, if not harder, than Pat. End of story. This was all set up by the FIA and Max. He lopping heads one by one. I sure hope no one else out there has pissed him off.