Silly Season 2013/14

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
beelsebob
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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banibhusan wrote:
taperoo2k wrote: He's a talented driver, but to say he's the greatest ever because he's won 3 World Championships on the trot and maybe 4 ? That's ignores the luck he's had and the many mistakes he's made and the absolute dominance of Red Bull. I want to see him face Alonso and co in cars that are of a similar performance and then we'll find out how good he is.
Schumacher also had the same luck, he also made some terrible mistakes and the Ferrari in that also dominated for most of the time. Yet I wonder why he is considered as one of the greatest and Vettel isn't. At least Vettel hasn't done a 1994 or 1997 and yet managed to win 3 WDC on the trot.
The thing is, there are many who don't think Schumacher really deserves the "great" title that much either (don't get me wrong, he's clearly a talented driver). Instead, he just hit the sport at a time when there weren't that many great drivers (at least after 94), and got lucky with cars.

Basically, the greatest talents that Schumacher faced were Senna (who probably would have beaten him several more times, given the performance of the williams in subsequent years), Hakinnen (who beat him as often as got beaten), and well... no one else really very talented after 1994. Add to that the the Ferrari was the bomb between 2000 and 2005 and he pretty much had everything sewn up before he even started.

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banibhusan
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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I am glad you got my point. This argument of Schumacher being the greatest and Vettel still needs to prove himself actually pisses me off sometimes (especially when I am on a high dose of beer, otherwise I would have ignored it :lol: ).

Whether Vettel is one of the greatest, is not the point. What he has achieved in such a short span of time is indeed a great achievement and he deserves a credit for that.

beelsebob
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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banibhusan wrote:I am glad you got my point. This argument of Schumacher being the greatest and Vettel still needs to prove himself actually pisses me off sometimes (especially when I am on a high dose of beer, otherwise I would have ignored it :lol: ).

Whether Vettel is one of the greatest, is not the point. What he has achieved in such a short span of time is indeed a great achievement and he deserves a credit for that.
He has credit for that – the credit is getting to call himself "3 times formula 1 world drivers champion". He doesn't need to be called great as well, until he proves that he really is better than the others out there.

Richard
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Unless I'm much mistaken neither Vettel or Schumacher is moving teams this season? Now that would be a very very silly season - you heard it hear first!
banibhusan wrote:I am glad you got my point. This argument of Schumacher being the greatest and Vettel still needs to prove himself actually pisses me off sometimes.
Indeed, many drivers are great in their own context (inc unsung heros too) and it's impossible to compare from one context to another. That's why we have the fanboi ying yang thread, people are welcome to try posting their thoughts in there :D

sennafan24
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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richard_leeds wrote: That's why we have the fanboi ying yang thread, people are welcome to try posting their thoughts in there :D
Unlock it, and unleash the beasts. :D

Anyhow, back on topic. Can anyone see Hulkenberg being odd man about again? I mean Ferrari and Red Bull, look to be full. Only Lotus would be a option, and they are in talks with JEV and may even retain Romain.

It would be a shame to see Nico left out in the cold again.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Assuming Siroktin comes in Nico is too poor to keep a seat in F1. I can't think of any team that will pay him next year. Especially since Massa has more money than him.


Not Lotus (Grosjean + Massa with his Nicolas Todt backing)
Not Ferrari (too inexperienced)
Not Force India (Paul has $$)
Not Torro Rosso
Not williams

Nico needs to get sponsors and FAST! The Siroktin Gutierrez cash combo is just too much for Peter Sauber to refuse.
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sennafan24
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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LionKing wrote:
Lets not clutter up the thread off topic.

PM if you want to continue our debate further.

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SectorOne
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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n smikle wrote:Assuming Siroktin comes in Nico is too poor to keep a seat in F1. I can't think of any team that will pay him next year. Especially since Massa has more money than him.


Not Lotus (Grosjean + Massa with his Nicolas Todt backing)
Not Ferrari (too inexperienced)
Not Force India (Paul has $$)
Not Torro Rosso
Not williams

Nico needs to get sponsors and FAST! The Siroktin Gutierrez cash combo is just too much for Peter Sauber to refuse.
I´d have to disagree, for me it´s clear Gutierrez is the one without a Formula One future (at least at Sauber)
Hulkenberg won´t have any problems finding a seat i think. He´s proven himself imo.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

sennafan24
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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SectorOne wrote: I´d have to disagree, for me it´s clear Gutierrez is the one without a Formula One future (at least at Sauber)
Hulkenberg won´t have any problems finding a seat i think. He´s proven himself imo.
Money talks though.

You are probably correct that someone will want Hulky, but in this climate being a "pay driver" can matter more than actual talent. Not always, but sometimes.

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SectorOne
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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sennafan24 wrote:
SectorOne wrote: I´d have to disagree, for me it´s clear Gutierrez is the one without a Formula One future (at least at Sauber)
Hulkenberg won´t have any problems finding a seat i think. He´s proven himself imo.
Money talks though.

You are probably correct that someone will want Hulky, but in this climate being a "pay driver" can matter more than actual talent. Not always, but sometimes.
This is true but you have Russian money coming in (or so they say, i guess Sirotkin will be proof of this)
So what you would end up with is one rookie and one incompetent driver that spends his days being 1 second off pace.
That money will go straight to new front wings and suspension components if you don´t have a leader in the team like Hulkenberg is.

I think the fact that they have Hulkenberg right now is a sign they are somewhat conscious of having a solid driver.
Although as i write this i think i remember something about Hulk definitely leaving so maybe you are right, they will run two new guys.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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FrukostScones
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Image

Sirotkin seat fitting in Sauber C31 for showrun in Russia
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

shelly
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Last post on Italian Leo Turrini's blog (http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2013 ... to-sicuro/) seem to suggest that the Ferrari-Raikkonen deal is done. Turrini has very reliable sources usually - this time he was having lunch with Domenicali.
twitter: @armchair_aero

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SectorOne
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Must have changed the blog post because this below makes little sense to me.
Dialogue between two people who love each other. "Well, I like the used safely, you like a used safely, he likes the used safely. Where is the problem?" "Indeed there is no problem, except for the fact that after such a thing I have to close the blog, having received the highest satisfaction possible. " "But you do not close anything, this is not the beginning of the end, but only the end of the beginning." " I obey. " Ps. As for the reaction to the news that Fernando will be, here are believed to quote the sentence that ends a happy spot for Renault. "I have no idea" (and even resent is important, I might add). Ps. 2. As proposed and expected tomorrow to the other answers of my diner.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Gerhardsa
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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SectorOne wrote:Must have changed the blog post because this below makes little sense to me.
Dialogue between two people who love each other. "Well, I like the used safely, you like a used safely, he likes the used safely. Where is the problem?" "Indeed there is no problem, except for the fact that after such a thing I have to close the blog, having received the highest satisfaction possible. " "But you do not close anything, this is not the beginning of the end, but only the end of the beginning." " I obey. " Ps. As for the reaction to the news that Fernando will be, here are believed to quote the sentence that ends a happy spot for Renault. "I have no idea" (and even resent is important, I might add). Ps. 2. As proposed and expected tomorrow to the other answers of my diner.
Agreed.
I have no idea what the 1st part of this bog post means.
Alonso be here, happy spot for Renault? what does that mean?

I however feel the Kimi-Ferrari deal should be done, if he is not going to RBR, Ferrari would be waiting with open arms.
But, as i said before, there is always the possibility of Nando leaving for RBR (or Renault according to the above? I doubt that), then they still have a World Champ in their car. Or, if Nando stays, they have 2 World Champs. Should be a formidable pairing

.poz
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 2013

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German newspaper Sports Bild reports that a drunken Kimi Raikonen told his friends he has already signed with Ferrari for 2014