McLaren MCL33

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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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What do you suppose that wavy wing connected to the barge board does? It's connected to the barge boards, the wavy wing basically channels air to the undercut right? Some of the airflow goes to the slotted floor, some of it is channeled to the sides. It's an interesting concept and they're doing a lot right but it's obvious that the development of their concept has taken a hit for a variety of reasons. I suppose it's just a matter of time for things to get back on track, I don't think the car is underdeveloped per-se, they're just taking a very methodical path to getting the flow to do what they want. It may not fix anything to just toss on more surface area, if it doesn't work the air efficiently it's just extra drag.

If the airflow is doing more or less what they want it to do, then it's just a matter of getting that airflow to do so more efficiently. Sometimes weakening vortecies strategically can strengthen vortecies elsewhere on the car and produce more overall downforce without a drag penalty. A lot of these little winglets work at different Re# than the car as a whole, so sometimes the effects are paradoxical, and efficient downforce becomes an emergent phenomena of a bunch of different variables(flow structures) if McLaren can or has worked this out they should be ok in the long run.
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Vanja #66
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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godlameroso wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 23:36
It occurred to me why you'd want to have slots on the bargeboards. You want to turn the air as that creates downforce on it's own, but you also want to let some slip by to interact with the sidepod undercut. That alone would shed some drag and it's probably why teams either load the bargeboard with slots, or use capes, and all sorts of nose devices and mostly solid bargeboards, to force channel air behind the bargeboards to interact with the sidepod undercut.
Are you talking about vertical barge board pieces (big ones, actual boards) or horizontal ones? Barge boards on these cars are completely different from the first ones to be put on open wheel cars some 20+ years ago.

Vertical slots are there to move high pressure and high energy air from front side to back side. Most of the air in front of barge boards goes outboard and doesn't come back to the car any more. It's also used by horizontal pieces in front of barge boards (I'd like to call them barge board foot plates) to create some downforce. This uses the energy (brings down total pressure) in the air, so that air is not as useful. This whole area, by the looks of it, works with Y250 vortex in moving front tyre wake outboard as soon as possible.

Obviously, teams don't use upper layers of air going by barge boards to make downforce, so these can be used to energize airflow passing between the tub and barge boards. This is also increasing drag (by increasing pressure difference on front and back sides), but it's increasing the amount of air going around side pods and above diffuser as well. Needless to say, this improves diffuser performance.

Different teams use different amounts of air for different purposes, so we still have very different (but all of them very complex) barge board designs.

Basically, in this area around and in front of side pods every slot on upper surface says downforce (and sometimes vortex induction).

godlameroso wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 23:36
Anyone want to take a guess how the side pod end plates work with the rest of the car? Are they for both front and rear tire wake control? Do they serve a greater purpose? Are they a test item and are they eventually just going to copy Haas?
Deflectors seem to be "catching" cleaner air behind the front tyre wake. Obviously, that air can't be completely clean (ie non-turbulent) but 5% turbulence intensity is quite okay to work with and a lot better than 50% or 100% in the turbulent core behind front wheels.

Because of convergent slots (vertical flaps in this area) this cleaner air is compressed and that remaining turbulence is compressed as well and it's bad effect is mitigated. However, as on barge boards, these slots induce drag. Horizontal instead of vertical pieces (like on Haas) are probably used to exploit this area for some more downforce.

Seems to me that without these deflectors a lot of air that could be used in the rear end would be wasted. So, as ringo said, it's strange seeing so small pieces in this area. Maybe McLaren MCL33 is making a lot of drag in some other area, so the team can't afford too much more of it.

Now, the top of the barge boards and subsequent cut downstream is a very interesting area. RB14 and W09 have a flat and straight vertical board first, to minimize spillage induced by pressure difference. MCL33 has barge boards connected to the tub, to eliminate it altogether. My guess is all those teams want to have that vortex made by barge-board cut and height reduction as strong as possible. This vortex probably passes between side pods and deflectors and who knows where it could end up without deflectors. The top and side surface of side pods behind this area is low pressure and in front of rear tyre you have a large high pressure zone, so it's very likely these create a tunnel for all that air caught by deflectors to go above diffuser and help it.

godlameroso wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 04:33
What do you suppose that wavy wing connected to the barge board does? It's connected to the barge boards, the wavy wing basically channels air to the undercut right?
The wing-shaped strut for deflector looks to be creating a bit of downforce and aiding to move that air (coming at a steeper angle downward) to the rear, while also giving it some "upwash". "upwash" because it's more likely straightening it towards the rear, rather than sending it up.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Vanja #66 wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 16:51
godlameroso wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 23:36
It occurred to me why you'd want to have slots on the bargeboards. You want to turn the air as that creates downforce on it's own, but you also want to let some slip by to interact with the sidepod undercut. That alone would shed some drag and it's probably why teams either load the bargeboard with slots, or use capes, and all sorts of nose devices and mostly solid bargeboards, to force channel air behind the bargeboards to interact with the sidepod undercut.
Are you talking about vertical barge board pieces (big ones, actual boards) or horizontal ones? Barge boards on these cars are completely different from the first ones to be put on open wheel cars some 20+ years ago.

Vertical slots are there to move high pressure and high energy air from front side to back side. Most of the air in front of barge boards goes outboard and doesn't come back to the car any more. It's also used by horizontal pieces in front of barge boards (I'd like to call them barge board foot plates) to create some downforce. This uses the energy (brings down total pressure) in the air, so that air is not as useful. This whole area, by the looks of it, works with Y250 vortex in moving front tyre wake outboard as soon as possible.

Obviously, teams don't use upper layers of air going by barge boards to make downforce, so these can be used to energize airflow passing between the tub and barge boards. This is also increasing drag (by increasing pressure difference on front and back sides), but it's increasing the amount of air going around side pods and above diffuser as well. Needless to say, this improves diffuser performance.

Different teams use different amounts of air for different purposes, so we still have very different (but all of them very complex) barge board designs.

Basically, in this area around and in front of side pods every slot on upper surface says downforce (and sometimes vortex induction).

godlameroso wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 23:36
Anyone want to take a guess how the side pod end plates work with the rest of the car? Are they for both front and rear tire wake control? Do they serve a greater purpose? Are they a test item and are they eventually just going to copy Haas?
Deflectors seem to be "catching" cleaner air behind the front tyre wake. Obviously, that air can't be completely clean (ie non-turbulent) but 5% turbulence intensity is quite okay to work with and a lot better than 50% or 100% in the turbulent core behind front wheels.

Because of convergent slots (vertical flaps in this area) this cleaner air is compressed and that remaining turbulence is compressed as well and it's bad effect is mitigated. However, as on barge boards, these slots induce drag. Horizontal instead of vertical pieces (like on Haas) are probably used to exploit this area for some more downforce.

Seems to me that without these deflectors a lot of air that could be used in the rear end would be wasted. So, as ringo said, it's strange seeing so small pieces in this area. Maybe McLaren MCL33 is making a lot of drag in some other area, so the team can't afford too much more of it.

Now, the top of the barge boards and subsequent cut downstream is a very interesting area. RB14 and W09 have a flat and straight vertical board first, to minimize spillage induced by pressure difference. MCL33 has barge boards connected to the tub, to eliminate it altogether. My guess is all those teams want to have that vortex made by barge-board cut and height reduction as strong as possible. This vortex probably passes between side pods and deflectors and who knows where it could end up without deflectors. The top and side surface of side pods behind this area is low pressure and in front of rear tyre you have a large high pressure zone, so it's very likely these create a tunnel for all that air caught by deflectors to go above diffuser and help it.

godlameroso wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 04:33
What do you suppose that wavy wing connected to the barge board does? It's connected to the barge boards, the wavy wing basically channels air to the undercut right?
The wing-shaped strut for deflector looks to be creating a bit of downforce and aiding to move that air (coming at a steeper angle downward) to the rear, while also giving it some "upwash". "upwash" because it's more likely straightening it towards the rear, rather than sending it up.
I wonder how all this stuff functions in yaw, as downforce differential during transients is where a huge chunk of performance is waiting to be found. Particularly in the next track(China).
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diffuser
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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godlameroso wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 23:36
It occurred to me why you'd want to have slots on the bargeboards. You want to turn the air as that creates downforce on it's own, but you also want to let some slip by to interact with the sidepod undercut. That alone would shed some drag and it's probably why teams either load the bargeboard with slots, or use capes, and all sorts of nose devices and mostly solid bargeboards, to force channel air behind the bargeboards to interact with the sidepod undercut.

It seems McLaren understand this and probably where their upgrade package comes into play, naturally these things have a fair bit of lead time. New crash tested nose probably takes at least a month. The fact the big package includes a new nose means the new upgrades will address this area, and the side pod endplates are just a preview.

Anyone want to take a guess how the side pod end plates work with the rest of the car? Are they for both front and rear tire wake control? Do they serve a greater purpose? Are they a test item and are they eventually just going to copy Haas?

There is some lateral upwash from the barge boards and side pod end-plates that's ripe for exploitation, particularly for front wheel wake, however this might interfere with the features they have in front of the rear tires. Probably why the area under the side pod end plate is bare.
The front of the side pod is larger that the hole because the radiators are larger than the hole. Even though the front of that side pod is curved, the air must have a certain bounce or deflection off of it. I'm sure par of the barge boards task is to take the bounce/straighten out the air coming off the front of the side pod.

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dren
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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The Mclaren is the only car still using the vertical vortex generators on top of the side pods. All of the other teams have abandoned them. Mercedes,Red Bull and TR use long horizontal wings. Ferrari pulls the air down for cooling. I am guessing those wings accelerate the flow between them and the top of the side pod to help it stay attached further downstream.
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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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LuisFeF1:


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trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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The outside edge of the adjustable portion of the wing also has a small cutout

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Looks more like Aluminium strips to strengthen the tips at the end.

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dren
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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With that kind of mount, you don't have to overlap the wing sections as much as you do with the older version.
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PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Overlap doesn't matter for under or overwing mounts, but the previous ones were probably causing separation points too close to the tips and resultant inconsistency.

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Vanja #66
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Exactly, kind of like a difference between classic and swan-neck rear wing mounts.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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roon
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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The new ones also tell us generally which direction the air is flowing over different parts of the wing.

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Re: McLaren MCL33

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zoroastar
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makecry
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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