Red Bull RB8 Renault (pre-launch speculation)

[raymondu999]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts51n_qt-_8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeQkju8t6GE[/youtube]

[PlatinumZealot]

Legal for 2012

Note, where it says 1800mm, it should say 925mm!

Isnt the whole point of a high, flat nose and monocoque to get as much air under it?

The high nose is to really side sweep the air. Most of the air that goes under the nose does not go under the floor but deflected sideways So You can still get good floor performance with a low nose.

The evolution of the nose of the Audi "R" Lemans cars is a good example of how the shape can be quite varied.

[allstaruk08]

Legal for 2012

Note, where it says 1800mm, it should say 925mm!

Isnt the whole point of a high, flat nose and monocoque to get as much air under it?

The high nose is to really side sweep the air. Most of the air that goes under the nose does not go under the floor but deflected sideways So You can still get good floor performance with a low nose.

The evolution of the nose of the Audi "R" Lemans cars is a good example of how the shape can be quite varied.

yeah i know that but the high nose has less disturbed air for the splitter, meaning better air flow under the car resulting in more downforce surely? The nose itself produces less downforce but the wing is more efficient because of it. Surely its the turning vains that help "side sweep" the air out as there is space for more air higher up. A lower nose doesn't have as much space under the nose and monocoque so you will have more disturbed air for the splitter resulting in a less efficient floor

[ringo]

The thing with high vs low nose. It is possible to have a high and low nose both having similar heights from the ground to the bottom surface of the nose.
Just depends on how the tub is designed.

[allstaruk08]

surely the teams would be work to the minimum or close to the minimum size allowed for the tub and nose and not have some huge tub and nose.

[NonNewtonic]

The thing with high vs low nose. It is possible to have a high and low nose both having similar heights from the ground to the bottom surface of the nose.
Just depends on how the tub is designed.

Yes I do agree with that see the MP4-26 which featured a low nose but still being fast and competitive

[PlatinumZealot]

That nose was just as high as the 25... proven already in the Mp4-26 thread.. It's a high nose design, the tip of the nose was above the wheel axis.

[MIKEY_!]

Perhaps that should have read 'lower nose', as in lower than most of the other cars.

[dren]

The idea of the high nose is to get as much air as possible around the car to the rear right?

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

From joseluisf1:

- Untested source: Rumour is that Newey & his guys achieved enormous downforce and they have a rocket again
- What is clear that RB8 is at least as good as RB7

Joseluis F1 usually post about new Ferrari car, and a lot of stuff ( use of Zircotech ) waz revelated by him.

[Tozza Mazza]

I think, with the EBD ban next year, and the loss of rear grip, compared to in 2011, we may have seen noses creeping down a touch anyway, or solutions similar to Force India used, or Renault used on R29 and R30, to boost some front wing downforce anyway.

I don't think we'll see anything radical in this area of the design, personally I expect lower dash bulkheads on at least a few cars, and then the actual nose to remain exactly the same shape as it did this season, although I could well be wrong.

In fact, if the image of the Sauber C31 with Perez doing his seat test for 2012 is representative of the car, then at least one team has gone for high dash bulkheads in 2012.

This area of the car will be the most visually different from 2012, ignoring any looming innovations we don't know about yet, ofcourse, so is probably the most interesting.

Tommorow I'll do some drawings of the different nose solutions teams may go for in 2012, and upload, could be useful and insightful!

[MIKEY_!]

Teams won't be looking for extra DF at the front next year. They will already be searching for a way to re-balance the car having lost so much rear DF (adding extra front DF will only make the car more unbalanced). Unless they can use the solutions you mention in a more efficient way than a normal front wing, don't expect to see them.

High noses increase rear grip at the expense of front grip, teams would have gone for even higher noses next year.

[Ferraripilot]

Teams won't be looking for extra DF at the front next year. They will already be searching for a way to re-balance the car having lost so much rear DF (adding extra front DF will only make the car more unbalanced). Unless they can use the solutions you mention in a more efficient way than a normal front wing, don't expect to see them.

High noses increase rear grip at the expense of front grip, teams would have gone for even higher noses next year.

Right. I think the name of the game is going to be how to get more flow under and around the nose. MB was sort of on the right line of thinking with their air passage through the front wing uprights. I've no idea how efficient that can or cannot be made though.

I would fully expect RB to not be as raked and not quite as soft at the front due to them essentially losing their vacuum cleaner-like suction at the back end. If all things were equal regarding EBD efficiency amongst all teams, I believe Mclaren would have 'the' car followed by RB and Ferrari and MB who undoubtedly had the worst.

[shelly]

what if newey comes out with a low nose?

[ringo]

Teams won't be looking for extra DF at the front next year. They will already be searching for a way to re-balance the car having lost so much rear DF (adding extra front DF will only make the car more unbalanced). Unless they can use the solutions you mention in a more efficient way than a normal front wing, don't expect to see them.

High noses increase rear grip at the expense of front grip, teams would have gone for even higher noses next year.

Nope.

It increases all round grip. front middle and rear. Low nose is just inferior.

The importance of the high nose is so that the air meeting with the splitter and the under floor is as undisturbed as possible from the free stream; especially in terms of the speed.
A low noses messes up all the flow going behind it more so than the high nose. Air to the splitter, air to the under floor, air to the turning vanes etc.
What's more during yaw transients the low nose is worse. The leeward side of the car will have lower air speed, due to the low nose acting as an obstruction to parts of the front wing during transients.
Just to not confuse, transient is not wind direction, it's the rate of the change of direction of the car relative to the heading speed. So it's not a big issue since yaw transients don't last long, but it's a consideration.
There is nothing in the low nose, aside from a slightly lower center of gravity and maybe easier to deal with pitching moment on the body of the car.
I still see the teams trying to go as high as possible with the high nose.

It breaks the air to the sides of the car better, which avoids that same air creating lift on areas on the car.