Vettel was going to sue after "multi 21"

[FW17]

Everyone seems to forget that all this started with seb and webber colliding in turkey and webber getting the blame for just taking his natural line out of the corner and slightly defending. If roles were reversed, seb would have defended ten times more harder and to make matters worse, marko backs seb, now anyone with common f1 knowledge would know that it was all sebs fault on that occasion. Then to add fuel to the fire a new wing is developed for silverstone and goes straight to Vettel even though mark was the main man in hunt for the title at the time. Heck if I was hard done by like that I would feel recentful to help Vettel at any point. But people fail to see that and only see mark not obeying team orders in 2012. How many times was seb asked if he would help mark towards the end of 2010? More times than I can remember and all he said was "we will see what happens" he already had his own agenda and wants to cry foul after mark doesn't help him. 2013 in Malaysia prooved to me that seb only cares about himself and no one else, mark was faster through majority of that race aswell. Mark did as he was told and turned down the rpm and seb went at him like an animal going after wounded prey.

That is the same Anglo BS again

The car once in front has the right to choose the line as long as there is enough space given to the other driver; in this case half the track was available for MW to do what he wanted. Just because Hamilton gave his opinion (by playing the media once again for his agenda) does not mean that people should not question and defend Vettel.

When have we ever seen MW overtake SV for you to make a claim that he would have defended harder and make matters worse?

[ChrisF1]

I seem to remember that in Malaysia it was requested the Mark ease off for fuel and/or tyre reasons, but Seb had managed both of these things better AND was still faster, therefore he was the deserved winner. Seb is selfish and for because of that he is a 4x WC.

[Silent Storm]

Everyone seems to forget that all this started with seb and webber colliding in turkey and webber getting the blame for just taking his natural line out of the corner and slightly defending. If roles were reversed, seb would have defended ten times more harder and to make matters worse, marko backs seb, now anyone with common f1 knowledge would know that it was all sebs fault on that occasion. Then to add fuel to the fire a new wing is developed for silverstone and goes straight to Vettel even though mark was the main man in hunt for the title at the time. Heck if I was hard done by like that I would feel recentful to help Vettel at any point. But people fail to see that and only see mark not obeying team orders in 2012. How many times was seb asked if he would help mark towards the end of 2010? More times than I can remember and all he said was "we will see what happens" he already had his own agenda and wants to cry foul after mark doesn't help him. 2013 in Malaysia prooved to me that seb only cares about himself and no one else, mark was faster through majority of that race aswell. Mark did as he was told and turned down the rpm and seb went at him like an animal going after wounded prey.

Why would Seb care about anyone else? Is Mark related to him? No.

Why would Seb or any driver care about anyone else but themselves. Before criticizing any driver try to put yourself in their place for a better understanding.
Seb did what he had to do because a year back Fernando with a dog of car took the championship battle to the last race and with a bit of luck would have won the championship. With that in mind Seb knew the F138 was a descent car not only in the hands of Fernando but also Massa so he had to be selfish to get as many points as possible.

What would you have done when the first race was won by Kimi with Mercedes looking good, Ferrari looking better than last year and your team mate in front of you. Everything pointing towards that this is not going to be a two way battle..

[Andres125sx]

Why would Seb care about anyone else?

Maybe because he works for a team who pays his big salary?

[Andres125sx]

The car once in front has the right to choose the line as long as there is enough space given to the other driver; in this case half the track was available for MW to do what he wanted.

You´re not talking about Turkey 2010, right?

[Andres125sx]

I think it is being looked at it out of context

1) Vettel clearly said that Weber did not deserve the benefit of that team order after what happened in 2012. Honest answer but since Vettel said it he is being crucified for it. Had Weber said the same he would have been awarded the sportsperson of the year by the bbc, sky, joe and james

2) Weber honestly thought he was in the lead because of what he had done through the race; Vettel thought he was 2nd because of pit strategy which was not favorable; so why should Weber have the benefit of a team order?

Everyone seems to forget that all this started with seb and webber colliding in turkey and webber getting the blame for just taking his natural line out of the corner and slightly defending. If roles were reversed, seb would have defended ten times more harder and to make matters worse, marko backs seb, now anyone with common f1 knowledge would know that it was all sebs fault on that occasion. Then to add fuel to the fire a new wing is developed for silverstone and goes straight to Vettel even though mark was the main man in hunt for the title at the time. Heck if I was hard done by like that I would feel recentful to help Vettel at any point. But people fail to see that and only see mark not obeying team orders in 2012. How many times was seb asked if he would help mark towards the end of 2010? More times than I can remember and all he said was "we will see what happens" he already had his own agenda and wants to cry foul after mark doesn't help him. 2013 in Malaysia prooved to me that seb only cares about himself and no one else, mark was faster through majority of that race aswell. Mark did as he was told and turned down the rpm and seb went at him like an animal going after wounded prey.

I agree with this, to analyse Seb-Mark problems in 2012 you first must go back and analyse their relationship from the beginning. The team has always showed a clear favouritism for Seb, first sign was Turkey 2010, that was Seb mistake without any doubt but the team blamed Mark

Anyone with eyes in his face can see RB favouritism for Vettel, actually you can see it even without eyes, just with ears (not bad for a #2).

Multi21 only showed this tendency again, I´d bet Seb lawyer didn´t need to be too agreesive to convice the team about doing nothing... if he actually needed to do anything

[Silent Storm]

Why would Seb care about anyone else?

Maybe because he works for a team who pays his big salary?

When 3 world champions have race winning car you forget salary or contract any try to get as many points as possible.
The team wouldn't care who is 1st or 2nd as long as it is from the same team.
I know not professional but when you know what your competitor can do in a slow car you do what Vettel did.

[Phil]

MW after the chequered flag cut across SV with such violence, his rear missing the front by mere inches and massive difference in speed. This case of rage was not investigated or reprimanded. WHY?

Like Vettel did in just about every race at the start when starting alongside Webber? Chopping aggressively to the side to make sure anyone starting beside would not get ahead? Too bad Webber mostly had notoriously bad starts to the point I questioned if the team had not actually sabotaged it to a point. It's a ridiculous thing to say or even think, yet usually when Webber started out of position (e.g. further behind) his starts used to be better than when at the front and in close contention to Vettel. We actually used to joke about it back in 2010...

[ChrisF1]

Doing it at the start and doing it after the flag are two completely different things.

[Juzh]

MW after the chequered flag cut across SV with such violence, his rear missing the front by mere inches and massive difference in speed. This case of rage was not investigated or reprimanded. WHY?

Like Vettel did in just about every race at the start when starting alongside Webber? Chopping aggressively to the side to make sure anyone starting beside would not get ahead?

Race start conditions vs after race conditions. How can you compare these two? Webber often chopped in front of people at the starts to cover them off as well, not sure where you're going with this?

Also, again with the intentional sabotaging... I mean really? Seriously?

[Phil]

Well you have to admit, with all public favoritism going on and Webber, despite being in the WDC lead, it did at least raise a few questions why Webbers car used to fail or perform so badly in certain situations. Not saying it is, but I remember clearly wondering about that more than a few times. It was strange to say the least. Perhaps it is more easier explained that the focus of the garage was on Sebs side, rather than Webbers. So, not outright sabotage, but perhaps a much finer line of where the focus of the team was?

[Juzh]

it did at least raise a few questions why Webbers car used to fail or perform so badly in certain situations.

Which ones exactly?

[Gaz.]

it did at least raise a few questions why Webbers car used to fail or perform so badly in certain situations.

Which ones exactly?

Well starts, for a start. Pit stop calamities such as wheels coming off and hitting a camera man for another.

[ME4ME]

Soon you are going to suggest that Mercedes sabotaged their own starts at Silverstone so that Williams could take the lead for a while until the end of the race to create some excitement just before stealing the win back and look like heroes?

There have been mighty long discussions in the past about reliability and team failures happening to Vettel and Webber and the consensus always was that they both were victims on quite and equal basis.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/groups/f1/fo ... -red-bull/

[Emmcee]

I agree with this, to analyse Seb-Mark problems in 2012 you first must go back and analyse their relationship from the beginning. The team has always showed a clear favouritism for Seb, first sign was Turkey 2010, that was Seb mistake without any doubt but the team blamed Mark

Anyone with eyes in his face can see RB favouritism for Vettel, actually you can see it even without eyes, just with ears (not bad for a #2).

Multi21 only showed this tendency again, I´d bet Seb lawyer didn´t need to be too agreesive to convice the team about doing nothing... if he actually needed to do anything

Yep very well said and i agree 100%. Mark hasn't been the best team player either but that was after the fact he got rorted by Redbull so many times. People always say "well why didnt he leave then" why would he when the car has the best chance of still winning races if seb has an issue of course.