Hamilton goes Vegan!

[Vasconia]

Based on the banter of this thread, I am looking forward to the discussion in the 'Hamilton converts to Islam/Buddhism/Taoism' thread.

I have the feeling that this will happen sooner or later. (not Islam but yes Taoism or something similar).

[Shrieker]

I do think it's harder to get all the nutrients we need from a fully vegan diet, but a professional athlete like Lewis should have no problem with that.

Why ? Are you saying his metabolism is different from ours ?

[Jolle]

I do think it's harder to get all the nutrients we need from a fully vegan diet, but a professional athlete like Lewis should have no problem with that.

Why ? Are you saying his metabolism is different from ours ?

The line of thought is that he already has a diet coach, but for reels, a vegan diet gives you more then enough of everything, even as a pro athlete (and the ones that became vegan are performing very well)

The general reaction for athletes that go vegan are: better health, faster muscle build up, faster recovery and more energy.

just google "vegan athletes"

[Ennis]

I do think it's harder to get all the nutrients we need from a fully vegan diet, but a professional athlete like Lewis should have no problem with that.

Why ? Are you saying his metabolism is different from ours ?

The line of thought is that he already has a diet coach, but for reels, a vegan diet gives you more then enough of everything, even as a pro athlete (and the ones that became vegan are performing very well)

The general reaction for athletes that go vegan are: better health, faster muscle build up, faster recovery and more energy.

just google "vegan athletes"

I'm willing to take on-board the environmental benefits, but there is nothing to suggest "better health, faster muscle build up, faster recovery and more energy" unless they were eating like crap beforehand. If this was their first surge in to eating nutrient dense foods and they're still meeting their other requirements then yes it should benefit them, however they could have a nice grass fed steak alongside all those nutrient dense vegetables...

[Andres125sx]

I´m far from an expert on this field, but both my parents are pharmacist, recently retired. Specially my mother has never liked meat, and she´s considered vegetarian/vegan´s diets.

Apart from pharmacist, she´s always enjoied learning about food and nutrition, so to me she´s an expert in the field. She´s discarded those diets as people who use them need an extremely careful nutrition plan, even so they always need nutrition complements, and even so it´s not weird to develop some health problems (for example stones in kidney are very common), so even when she doesn´t like meat, she still eat meat. I´ll repeat, she´s a pharmacist who talked with her customers daily, so apart from an expert, she´s done a real life survey for decades. Her veredict, as a vegetarian your chances to suffer some nutrition deficiency are so high it´s not worth. Obviously if you eat meat daily you will also suffer several problems, but if you´re vegetarian and don´t take care of a balanced diet, your problems will not be lower. All this will also depend on the person, as not every human accept same food equally. What works for you may not work for me.

If you compare someone eating meat 7 days a week, or someone eating fast food, with a vegetarian, yes, vegetarians will enjoy a better health, but that´s comparing apples to oranges, something those with hidden interests do often, at both sides. But if you compare someone with a good diet including meat... we humans are omnivorous, like it or not.

We´re very prone to assume we´re wiser than nature, but we´re not. Vegan is just a step further in this (stupid IMHO) meat paranoia, wich I must say has a solid base as excessive meat is VERY bad and things like mad cow disease provide solid arguments to vegetarians and vegans, but that´s like saying "since sex addiction is bad, I´ll stop having
any sex". Will you?

[SR71]

...

Lots of people are far from experts in here giving advise from a position of an expert.

Going vegan does not mean you think you're wiser than nature - it's quite the opposite.

[Andres125sx]

...

Lots of people are far from experts in here giving advise from a position of an expert.

So true...

Going vegan does not mean you think you're wiser than nature - it's quite the opposite.

Good example SR71


We humans are omnivorous, this is not an opinion, but a fact. Going vegan or vegetarian is going against nature because we think our science is good enough to replace meat with some other proteins and that´s all, there won´t be any other problem... so basically we´re assuming our science can replace millions years of evolution


I find it quite amazing how we humans keep repeating same mistakes forever, we always think we know it all, we always assume our science is perfect and does not miss anything

Sorry but my faith on science is not that blind, my parents taught me that since I was a child, and I´ll repeat they´re
both scientists

[Jolle]

...

Lots of people are far from experts in here giving advise from a position of an expert.

So true...

Going vegan does not mean you think you're wiser than nature - it's quite the opposite.

Good example SR71


We humans are omnivorous, this is not an opinion, but a fact. Going vegan or vegetarian is going against nature because we think our science is good enough to replace meat with some other proteins and that´s all, there won´t be any other problem... so basically we´re assuming our science can replace millions years of evolution


I find it quite amazing how we humans keep repeating same mistakes forever, we always think we know it all, we always assume our science is perfect and does not miss anything

Sorry but my faith on science is not that blind, my parents taught me that since I was a child, and I´ll repeat they´re
both scientists

My question would be, how many actual vegans do you know?

my group of friends/people I know well is around half vegan/half meat eaters. From the vegans, many of them have that lifestyle for decades or even a life time no one, really no one has any or ever had any food related deficiency. No one from that group (around 150) has diabetes or heart problems, one had cancer in the past five years. Almost all these vegans eat (vegan) fast foods on a regular basis, smoke, use drugs, drink.

the meat eaters, also around 150 people, many of them are obese (what is a heath risk), around 20-25 have diabetes, already had a few heart attacks (in the age of 40-50!!) around ten developed cancers like colon or bone cancer.

my own experience is one-on-on that of science.

[Tommy Cookers]

I don't believe your claims of such conveniently extensive evidence ......
and you are the one bring cancer into the discussion

fwiw the 2 people I knew that had a lifelong super-healthy diet - I saw both of them die of cancer

cancer is a normal condition resulting from ageing ie from being alive
death is a normal condition resulting from being alive

there is essentially zero evidence linking so-called bowel cancer to diet
my confidence in stating this is related to the UK official statements that diet is responsible for 15% of the risk
that's the best they can do by massaging the data to get the outcome they need

yes, very high cooking temperatures will produce carcinogens (in vegatables and in meat)
and iirc some fermented-vegetable traditional diets also show high rates of distinctive cancers

bowel cancer isn't really bowel cancer - it's a 'general-purpose' cancer that just becomes visible first in the bowel
that's why it's is incurable
the measurement of cancer treatment is essentially faked - because officially every day of life after detection is attributed to subsequent treatment
so the historical increase in diagnostic activity is generating an illusion of outcome improvement that does not exist

[Jolle]

I don't believe your claims of such conveniently extensive evidence ......

fwiw the 2 people I knew that had a lifelong super-healthy diet - I saw both of them die of cancer

cancer is a normal condition resulting from ageing ie from being alive
death is a normal condition resulting from being alive

there is essentially zero evidence linking so-called bowel cancer to diet
my confidence in stating this is related to the UK official statements that diet is responsible for 15% of the risk
that's the best they can do by massaging the data to get the outcome they need

bowel cancer isn't really bowel cancer - it's a 'widespread' cancer that becomes visible first in the bowel
that's why it's is incurable
the quantification of cancer treatment is essentially faked - officially every day of life after detection is attributed to subsequent treatment
so the general increase in diagnostic activity is generating an illusion of outcome improvement that does not exist

There are lots of well done studies, even from the world health organization (WHO) who relate many types of cancer and diabetes directly to a meat diet.

Yes we all die and yes we probably all will get some form of cancer, but it’s lowering the risk or have it come later in life. With your logic smoking isn’t bad because we all die anyway and people who don’t smoke will get cancer too.

When you used to meat it tastes good, and that is ok. Drugs are bad for you too but they taste good. Alohol is bad for you but it tastes good. Smoking (when you used to it) tastes good... from all these things we live shorter, that’s ok too.

I’m a vegan for many years now, primary for the environment but also found that my skin is better, my stamina has improved, my hangovers are less severe, my bowels don’t have any “nasty time” anymore and more energy in general. I still do smoke, drink coffee, love beers, stressful business life, mortgage, kids, etc etc.

I really dare some of you to try it out. Go vegan for a month and feel your body change.

[Tommy Cookers]

now you're talking about diabetes !

diabetes is caused by excess sugar in the mega-coke swigged by 'junk-food' consumers - and the fat/oil in the fries
the meat is just a spectator to this
as I said earlier - hidden sugar that didn't exist until the USA found they could make cheap sugar from maize ie 'corn syrup' (and feed cattle)

diabetes is the big issue


I don't particularly like meat
but much more I don't like people so keen to be brainwashed or to brainwash themselves and others with pseudo-science

some vegans have been imprisoned (for forcing on their children diets that impair development)

[Just_a_fan]

You smoke and then lecture about the alleged health issues of meat?

That's like playing Russian Roulette with a loaded pistol whilst warning others of the risk of cutting themselves with a knife...

[Jolle]

You smoke and then lecture about the alleged health issues of meat?

That's like playing Russian Roulette with a loaded pistol whilst warning others of the risk of cutting themselves with a knife...

Like i said, my reasoning was for the environment but as a side effect i found that my heath improved substantially. I do still love living the rock'n roll lifestyle.

[ChrisDanger]

Like i said, my reasoning was for the environment but as a side effect i found that my heath improved substantially. I do still love living the rock'n roll lifestyle.

In your mind you stopped eating meat, but I'm willing to bet that what really happened is that your entire diet changed, which also included the omission of meat. So you feel healthier and think it's due to cutting out meat, yet you don't really know how much the other changes affected you.

Maybe I'm wrong, and nothing else changed, although that seems improbable from my own experience experimenting with dietary restrictions.

But anyway, that's great. I'm glad your health has improved. But I don't think it's irrefutable evidence of the benefits of going vegan.

[Jolle]

Like i said, my reasoning was for the environment but as a side effect i found that my heath improved substantially. I do still love living the rock'n roll lifestyle.

In your mind you stopped eating meat, but I'm willing to bet that what really happened is that your entire diet changed, which also included the omission of meat. So you feel healthier and think it's due to cutting out meat, yet you don't really know how much the other changes affected you.

Maybe I'm wrong, and nothing else changed, although that seems improbable from my own experience experimenting with dietary restrictions.

But anyway, that's great. I'm glad your health has improved. But I don't think it's irrefutable evidence of the benefits of going vegan.

I'm not claiming it is, I say it's in line with the evidence that is out there and the many many people who experienced the same.

I would say, the proof of the pudding is in eating of the cake. To disprove this, it's quite simple.... eat vegan for, lets say a month and see what happens. At least its a lot less dangerous then "supersize me".