Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

[jordanb]

There was lots of talk last year that the combination of Petronas fuel technology and Merc engine was not optimal in the switch to E10 fuel. Also there was lots of speculation for example that Shell got it right with their fuel flowing into the Ferrari engine.
Article 16 and in detail 16.3 (fuel properties) gives a degree of freedom on the type of fuel to be used. Maybe some more performance can be extracted from that path as well. Mercedes also has the benefit of data from all the teams that used their engines using different fuel suppliers and consequently fuels as at a degree.
Also, it was the first year with the new engines. Aston Martin, Williams and Ricciardo were the only ones not getting a penalty for using more power unit components than allowed. Of course there can be benefits in getting penalties and changing components, Merc did it in 2021, we all remember the Brazil engine. It's all in the game.
If I am not mistaken the engine cost cap is again annual and Merc getting the reliability upgrade just in time last year means that the cost for that was budgeted in last season's budget. Maybe they will have some more headroom for reliability upgrades this year leading to performance gains.

As of 1st of March 2022, fuel and oil specifications are frozen and cannot be changed by the suppliers. I do not see anything in article 16 and subsections that allows any leeway for further development of fuels or oils. FIA has tried to be as specific as possible to govern any change to fuel mix specifications. Every team has to provide fuel and oil samples for testing at every race and it should conform to the frozen specifications.

It would be fascinating to see if a fuel supplier comes up with performance enhancement despite the freeze. I am sure we would hear that when it happens.

[Cs98]

It is infact easier to fix all the reliability issues in a year, provided a manufacturer understands all the issues that are bogging the engine down. Unlike in the past years, the manufacturer need not have to focus on finding performance while working on reliability fixes and the overall design remains constant. There is very little chance of inducing new problem with reliability fixes when the focus is just solving the existing problem.

But your caveat “provided an engine manufacturer understands all the issues” is not a small thing when there are probably several issues, at least in the case of Ferrari we know.

Coming into next season they are gonna have to start making another reliability analysis, whereas Honda and Merc know what they have and might be able to start pushing the performance slightly. Ferrari won’t know what they have for several races and there are no guarantees all their issues will be solved.

[Goblin42]

there's alot of rumours saying that Merc will stick with the *zeropod* concept for the W14, and that's expected, they have a good understanding of the flow interactions between the bodywork and floor edge
(it showed with the COTA update that they have a good idea how to manage the downwash from the bodywork to help seal the floor)

On the other hand over the winter they have to fix their Suspension problems ie (stiffness and lack of travel distance)
and drag problems, they're always running higher wing levels compered to the top two teams, they need to find an efficient floor design that's balanced in downforce & drag levels, i don't expect Mercedes to be really competitive in 2023, they're behind on the development curve compared to RB

Alot of the tricks they used this season are getting banned like using the mirror mount as vortex generators on top of the SIS mount and front wing endplate cut out to generate a vortex that pulls the front tyre wake away

how will they mange front tyre wake latching back to the bodywork or disturbing the flow downstream is still a thing to be seen

overall the W13 was an adventurous project on many levels, for 2023 with the new floor update it will be a challenge for most teams, and it will be interesting to see where the W14 will place on the grid

[f1316]

Has merc shot themselves in the foot by not going the ferrari way with the engine?
Both teams knew pretty soon that it wasn't going to be their year. Ferrari pushed its engine but has now 30hp extra coming for 23, while merc had a solid engine in terms of reliability in 2022, but I'm afraid nothing big is coming for 23...
Your thoughts?

I don't see that happening. Ferrari might return to their "peak power" in 2022 (sort of like Spain, Miami, Baku time), which was more than what they were running at the end, but not 30HP more. 30HP is several years of real engine development. Next year is supposed to be a reliability fix, not a performance upgrade. If their engine becomes more powerful than it ever was in 2022 it's obviously a performance upgrade.

The story (according to Italian motorsport.com) goes that Ferrari’s PU1 in 2022 was already running in a more conservative mode, with ~15 bhp less than its maximum potential. They then supposedly backed it off even more - equivalent to another ~15 bhp - after it became clear that the engines kept blowing up.

So the theory is that this means there’s a further 30 bhp to come vs how Ferrari were running the engine in, say, Spa; it would be 15 bhp up on how it ran in, say, Bahrain (or apparently Monza or Abu Dhabi where they turned it up to the original settings again).

[Sisyphus_1]

Has merc shot themselves in the foot by not going the ferrari way with the engine?
Both teams knew pretty soon that it wasn't going to be their year. Ferrari pushed its engine but has now 30hp extra coming for 23, while merc had a solid engine in terms of reliability in 2022, but I'm afraid nothing big is coming for 23...
Your thoughts?

I don't see that happening. Ferrari might return to their "peak power" in 2022 (sort of like Spain, Miami, Baku time), which was more than what they were running at the end, but not 30HP more. 30HP is several years of real engine development. Next year is supposed to be a reliability fix, not a performance upgrade. If their engine becomes more powerful than it ever was in 2022 it's obviously a performance upgrade.

The story (according to Italian motorsport.com) goes that Ferrari’s PU1 in 2022 was already running in a more conservative mode, with ~15 bhp less than its maximum potential. They then supposedly backed it off even more - equivalent to another ~15 bhp - after it became clear that the engines kept blowing up.

So the theory is that this means there’s a further 30 bhp to come vs how Ferrari were running the engine in, say, Spa; it would be 15 bhp up on how it ran in, say, Bahrain (or apparently Monza or Abu Dhabi where they turned it up to the original settings again).

I would take that with a pinch of salt. They've chosen too small a turbo imo, hence their horrendous performance in Mexico, so having that much extra HP with a smaller compressor is suspect, especially given the fuel flow restrictions.

Maybe they have sorted the turbo reliability out and can run more agressive, as they did in early '22 but I would bet a month of sunday dinners they still have failures in 2023 OR they have to sacrifice the latter few races out of the 7 or 8 each PU has to do.

[pursue_one's]

Mercedes W14: zero sidepods concept will not be disrupted
"The DNA of the 2023 single-seater will be different from that of the current car, as we will change the architecture, but it does not necessarily mean that our chassis will look very different from that of the W13." - Toto Wolff had stated towards the end of last season.

As far as we have learned, the Mercedes W14 2023 will not deviate in any major way from the aerodynamic concept of the much-disappointing previous car (W13), although the aerodynamic map has also been completely redesigned thanks to a complete and major redesign of the suspension. Although, it is precisely the suspension department, along with the Power Unit department, that has been the most affected by major goodbyes in recent months. While in the motorsports area, many Mercedes employees have moved to Red Bull Powertrain, in the more purely mechanical area, staff have moved to Alpine and Aston Martin, facilitated in part by the proximity from the Brackley headquarters to those in Enstone (less than 30 km) and Silverstone (just over 10 km).

"We're looking forward to next season to see if everything we've been focusing on works, which is fixing the problems we've been having with the W13," a technician working at the Brackley headquarters let us know. Problems such as high drag, which cannot be solved in 2022 due to a budget cap issue, and above all a very small aerodynamic operating window, which they have been trying to work on in order to fully exploit the potential of the nevertheless revised zero sidepods aerodynamic concept on every track. Not forgetting, too, the excessive weight that has affected the W13 for much of the season, with the upgrade brought to the track in Austin allowing the Anglo-German car to take a major step forward. From this point of view, a lot of work has been done during this winter; the Mercedes W14 will start the season very close to the weight limit of 796 kilograms imposed by the Federation, two kilograms less than what was allowed last season.

Fighting also on the Power Unit side, with Mercedes believing it has been on average the third best engine behind Honda and Ferrari, with a recovery especially in the latter part of the season also thanks to the introduction of an updated unit in crankshaft reliability.

"Once we got on the track, we were also a little disappointed on the engine side. Especially because we needed to fix some things and we could no longer do that through hardware changes because of the freeze." - Hywel Thomas, managing director of Mercedes-AMG HPP (engine department), let it be known. "What became increasingly clear as we addressed the problems was the connection between the power unit and the chassis, two macro elements that you can't develop separately, especially if you want to get more performance out of the PU without being able to change the engine hardware." That for Mercedes meant solving the hopping problems because by doing so there was a chance to extract additional performance from the engine.

Still regarding the engine, the first 2023 unit was fired up inside the chassis of the Mercedes W14 on Wednesday (21/12). As has often been the case in past years, Mercedes wanted to take the new car to the dynamic benches (Virtual Test Track) as soon as possible in order to be able to check in advance how the new aeromechanical platform works dynamically, with the aim of comparing it with what was detected statically in the wind tunnel and CFD, and how the drive unit and transmission react to stress. VTTs are more than just simulators since they mimic conditions that can be found on the track since aerodynamics, mechanics, power unit and even transmission can be tested as one. A solution to the testing bans imposed by the FIA in an attempt to reduce costs. Not to mention that the VTT benches can then be connected to the actual simulator, with driver driving, so that the parameters coming out of the latter can be sent to the dynamic bench, which thus simulates, at the same time, the 'dynamic' part.

- DeepL translate

source:Mercedes W14 (2023): il concetto aerodinamico zero sidepods non verrà stravolto
https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-w14-20 ... stravolto/

[Vanja #66]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. By reducing floor downforce potential, raised floor edges and tunnel throat might have been exactly what Merc needed so they don't need to change their concept completely. Looking forward to seeing what they do with W14.

[RedNEO]

[MIKEY_!]

Teaser

They're being cheeky if that's what they posted as a teaser. That's a previous gen car with George's number stuck on it. Possibly the W12 but hard to tell.

[RedNEO]

Teaser

They're being cheeky if that's what they posted as a teaser. That's a previous gen car with George's number stuck on it. Possibly the W12 but hard to tell.

You’re probably right judging by there response lol



Still baffled if it’s the silver colour that’s photoshopped because how real it looks or if they really painted it silver again?

[FW17]

Reminded me of

[Goblin42]

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63B73E24

Oh this is just the W10/W12 show car from the Las vegas GP event last month

[RedNEO]

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63B73E24

Oh this is just the W10/W12 show car from the Las vegas GP event last month

https://i.imgur.com/knCfFQl.png

Nice catch, thanks

[Spacepace]

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63B73E24

Oh this is just the W10/W12 show car from the Las vegas GP event last month

https://i.imgur.com/knCfFQl.png

The sidepods look W11

[De Jokke]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/170525/w ... rises.html

So was W13, with nasty ones...

A bit perplexed that they dare to make a statement like this, after their 2022 campaign. It shows confidence but that's what they had also ahead of the '22 season