Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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karana
karana
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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search wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 15:01
Gooch wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 14:38
Is was made clear to be in a IG post by scarbs yesterday, THE SKID BLOCK IS THE MEASURING POINT.
any idea if they just changed this mid-season, when starting to use new device? I noticed that yesterday's FIA report only refers to a measurement of the "skids", while the same stewards still used "plank assembly" instead when they dsq'ed Hülkenberg in April.

Schmidt from AmuS also said that for the validation check at McLaren yesterday (the one with a slightly different result) they used the "traditional method", which would also indicate that something about the tests changed recently.
No, nothing changed. Besides, the desicion documents in all three cases state "The thickness of the plank assembly was below the permitted minimum thickness".
In Hülkenberg's case the document from Jo Bauer is titled "Skid Wear of Car 27".

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search
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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karana wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 15:32
search wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 15:01
Gooch wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 14:38
Is was made clear to be in a IG post by scarbs yesterday, THE SKID BLOCK IS THE MEASURING POINT.
any idea if they just changed this mid-season, when starting to use new device? I noticed that yesterday's FIA report only refers to a measurement of the "skids", while the same stewards still used "plank assembly" instead when they dsq'ed Hülkenberg in April.

Schmidt from AmuS also said that for the validation check at McLaren yesterday (the one with a slightly different result) they used the "traditional method", which would also indicate that something about the tests changed recently.
No, nothing changed. Besides, the desicion documents in all three cases state "The thickness of the plank assembly was below the permitted minimum thickness".
In Hülkenberg's case the document from Jo Bauer is titled "Skid Wear of Car 27".
ah right, thanks, I only checked the reasoned decision, which didn't include anything about skids - but the earlier file indeed does.

So the main thing which changed due to the new device is apparently the accuracy, based on the article by the-race. Now there's an additional decimal place.

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SiLo
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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How are we assuming this is all McLaren? The initial article clearly states that it was multiple teams.

I'm wondering if it's possible that it's more than the block being heated, or its being heated in conjuction with something else that helps the floor flex away from the track surface.
Felipe Baby!

vorticism
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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They measure at the inspection holes regardless of what material is present. If it’s all skid, they say the skid is worn. If there is plank present, they say the plank is worn.

SiLo's right, this thread was not initially about McLaren exclusively. If a skid were placed near to but not intersecting an inspection hole then displacing it negatively in the Z direction would offer the advantage that has been discussed in this thread since prior to the Nevada GP. Depending upon how the parts are constrained, thermal expansion might also be used to cause the retraction of a skid, if coincident with an inspection hole. If the intersection with the hole is partial, you could again imagine TE in any direction could be used to pivot a skid away from the inspection region to avoid wear.

Regardless of TE, plank flex and perhaps floor flex was suspected in previous seasons as the mechanism by which these these motions could be achieved.

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search
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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vorticism wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 16:29
They measure at the inspection holes regardless of what material is present. If it’s all skid, they say the skid is worn. If there is plank present, they say the plank is worn.
makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

pantherxxx
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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Big Tea
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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Farnborough wrote:
23 Nov 2025, 20:53
Reasonably, any metal measured when hot will be larger than when cold.

It's advantageous to the competitors to measure as soon as possible that component, as it'll never be as big as that after cooling.

They don't say how much smaller it was when measured in front of McL team personnel, unlikely to be much.

The first measurement it seems is recorded for scrutineering purposes.

The micrometer is going to be a 0~25mm range in its gateway. This is effectively "self" calibrating in that at closed position (zero) it can be confirmed It's reading correctly, either digital or vernier scale. This is normal and no obvious suspicious circumstances are apparent from the reported words.

If there were other "device" used at last GP it doesn't look like its within this particular measurement and record.
There are exceptions where uneven wear on the anvil or a drop slightly misaligning the shaft from 90 deg can have an effect, but in high accuracy checks a test plate would probably show it up and I have little doubt everyone who verified it used their own instrument, so I believe you would be correct.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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chrisc90
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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Is that Bahrain this year?
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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AR3-GP
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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We obviously don't know the real story, but it's rather curious that the FIA decided to intervene with 3 rounds to go in a regulation set that is finished. If teams got away with this for 20 race weekends, then the FIA really ought to swallow their pride and let it go. This era of cars ends very shortly.
Beware of T-Rex

f1isgood
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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AR3-GP wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 21:22
We obviously don't know the real story, but it's rather curious that the FIA decided to intervene with 3 rounds to go in a regulation set that is finished. If teams got away with this for 20 race weekends, then the FIA really ought to swallow their pride and let it go. This era of cars ends very shortly.
If McLaren were playing with this before but could run their car higher as they didn't have any competition, FIA obviously wouldn't care. Now that Red Bull are close, McLaren trying to push the limits and the FIA seeing a pattern might be the reason why they're doing this.
Call a spade, a spade.

Farnborough
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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Big Tea wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 17:57
Farnborough wrote:
23 Nov 2025, 20:53
Reasonably, any metal measured when hot will be larger than when cold.

It's advantageous to the competitors to measure as soon as possible that component, as it'll never be as big as that after cooling.

They don't say how much smaller it was when measured in front of McL team personnel, unlikely to be much.

The first measurement it seems is recorded for scrutineering purposes.

The micrometer is going to be a 0~25mm range in its gateway. This is effectively "self" calibrating in that at closed position (zero) it can be confirmed It's reading correctly, either digital or vernier scale. This is normal and no obvious suspicious circumstances are apparent from the reported words.

If there were other "device" used at last GP it doesn't look like its within this particular measurement and record.
There are exceptions where uneven wear on the anvil or a drop slightly misaligning the shaft from 90 deg can have an effect, but in high accuracy checks a test plate would probably show it up and I have little doubt everyone who verified it used their own instrument, so I believe you would be correct.
That would be a fault, and obvious too though. Any method of measurement would carry the onus of working correctly.

The device is intrinsically accurate and without specific routine to calibrate that would rely on outside reference.

My point is, that its highly unlikely to false report or be logically questioned as to accuracy successfully in this use scenario.

The data recorded can ge relied upon, and was agreed with by the team personnel. There's no questionable part of the scrutineering.

Farnborough
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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AR3-GP wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 21:22
We obviously don't know the real story, but it's rather curious that the FIA decided to intervene with 3 rounds to go in a regulation set that is finished. If teams got away with this for 20 race weekends, then the FIA really ought to swallow their pride and let it go. This era of cars ends very shortly.
it's simply a hard rule, nothing more or less. They breeched it and took the predetermined penalty.

The onus on teams is to ensure compliance, all of the time, whatever item is the focus of checking.

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AR3-GP
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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Farnborough wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 21:36
AR3-GP wrote:
24 Nov 2025, 21:22
We obviously don't know the real story, but it's rather curious that the FIA decided to intervene with 3 rounds to go in a regulation set that is finished. If teams got away with this for 20 race weekends, then the FIA really ought to swallow their pride and let it go. This era of cars ends very shortly.
it's simply a hard rule, nothing more or less. They breeched it and took the predetermined penalty.

The onus on teams is to ensure compliance, all of the time, whatever item is the focus of checking.
I didn't mean Mclaren's DSQ, that's black and white. I mean the idea that there were mechanisms designed to circumvent the skid wear. It's race 21 of 24. The FIA was defeated :lol:
Beware of T-Rex

Farnborough
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Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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I feel they're "kicking" it a bit, the FIA, as they definitely don't want this happening potentially at the last race, and certainly not if its the decider :shock:

They've all had enough warning now, the main protagonists, plus any other teams that could occupy points paying positions that change the outcome of driver's championship.

Imagine if this exclusion was to arrive at the AD finale ? We all know where that ends up :oops:

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Illegal skid block tricks discovered

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Not to mention it would likely transfer into next season too
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.