2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

Ahahaha I love watching you two argue

It's a very difficult and subjective answer though. It might be better posed as, should Lando, in his 6th year of racing in F1, be sufficiently be prepared to take a championship level car and get the maximum out of it consistently. And the answer this year is probably Yes. Is he quite there? Probably not.

It's very fine margins, and he has improved. But I was making this point consistently last year... Lando is up against one of the very best, and he has to get close to the limits, consistently, and maximise all of his opportunities if he wants to be a world champion. The person who comes back from a position behind the other cars to win anyway, is still Max, sadly. And it isn't just luck.

Lando, for me, could certainly have done more this year. On the one hand, I look at this like a practise year for Lando, to grow into that world champion elect headspace. But should he need that time, should he already be doing more now?

But it is worth mentioning that the team haven't always helped, nor have circumstances. But Lando also needs to up his game against somebody who will be spoken about in the same breath as Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton. We've no right to expect that from him, but if he wants to be WDC and keep being WDC, there's more room for improvement.

As for which year is the worst for Lando, that is honestly a horrible question with no sensible answer, and would likely see many different versions of the truth contested until the end of time! ahahaha

Reasonable and sensible.

The problem for me is that Lando hasn't come close to maximising his potential. Not all of it is down to him, and that would take some reflection of the season and the races and not just anecdotal recollection, to answer fairly. What I would say is that I'm disappointed we don't have much more, I'm not sure how much of it is on Lando, but a reasonable portion of that responsibility would be.

And for Balance, I'd also say Oscar has been "OK", this year, relative to the talent he showed last year. Tyre management and his racecraft have all got better and he's only in year 2. But it would also have been nice to see a little more from him. But he has not embarrassed himself against Lando, he's stood up to the challenge and given a good showing and to be fair, he was extremely unlucky not to be the one winning in Miami because of luck that favoured Lando, and unlucky not to have won last week when he was penalised in Austria and lost his Q3. Whilst I think it was not right his lap was ruled out, he also needed to make sure it wasn't in question.

[BMMR61]

Ahahaha I love watching you two argue

It's a very difficult and subjective answer though. It might be better posed as, should Lando, in his 6th year of racing in F1, be sufficiently be prepared to take a championship level car and get the maximum out of it consistently. And the answer this year is probably Yes. Is he quite there? Probably not.

It's very fine margins, and he has improved. But I was making this point consistently last year... Lando is up against one of the very best, and he has to get close to the limits, consistently, and maximise all of his opportunities if he wants to be a world champion. The person who comes back from a position behind the other cars to win anyway, is still Max, sadly. And it isn't just luck.

Lando, for me, could certainly have done more this year. On the one hand, I look at this like a practise year for Lando, to grow into that world champion elect headspace. But should he need that time, should he already be doing more now?

But it is worth mentioning that the team haven't always helped, nor have circumstances. But Lando also needs to up his game against somebody who will be spoken about in the same breath as Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton. We've no right to expect that from him, but if he wants to be WDC and keep being WDC, there's more room for improvement.

As for which year is the worst for Lando, that is honestly a horrible question with no sensible answer, and would likely see many different versions of the truth contested until the end of time! ahahaha

Reasonable and sensible.

Much to agree with. For me and watching it confirmed in the Tom Clarkson interview this week Lando wears his heart on his sleeve just a bit much for a warrior. Sure that's why many of his fans love him but his near rookie team-mate will eat him up sooner or later with his quiet, determined, no distractions approach. I was ready to watch Oscar challenge for pole without the weight of expectations on his shoulders. On the positive side, Lando is only just getting the experience of challenging for wins against a world driver like Max, he's still getting better for sure. Great to see how strong he has been week in week out, really since China.

[LionsHeart]

Ahahaha I love watching you two argue

It's a very difficult and subjective answer though. It might be better posed as, should Lando, in his 6th year of racing in F1, be sufficiently be prepared to take a championship level car and get the maximum out of it consistently. And the answer this year is probably Yes. Is he quite there? Probably not.

It's very fine margins, and he has improved. But I was making this point consistently last year... Lando is up against one of the very best, and he has to get close to the limits, consistently, and maximise all of his opportunities if he wants to be a world champion. The person who comes back from a position behind the other cars to win anyway, is still Max, sadly. And it isn't just luck.

Lando, for me, could certainly have done more this year. On the one hand, I look at this like a practise year for Lando, to grow into that world champion elect headspace. But should he need that time, should he already be doing more now?

But it is worth mentioning that the team haven't always helped, nor have circumstances. But Lando also needs to up his game against somebody who will be spoken about in the same breath as Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton. We've no right to expect that from him, but if he wants to be WDC and keep being WDC, there's more room for improvement.

As for which year is the worst for Lando, that is honestly a horrible question with no sensible answer, and would likely see many different versions of the truth contested until the end of time! ahahaha

Reasonable and sensible.

The problem for me is that Lando hasn't come close to maximising his potential. Not all of it is down to him, and that would take some reflection of the season and the races and not just anecdotal recollection, to answer fairly. What I would say is that I'm disappointed we don't have much more, I'm not sure how much of it is on Lando, but a reasonable portion of that responsibility would be.

And for Balance, I'd also say Oscar has been OK, this year. Tyre management and his racecraft have all got better and he's only in year 2. But it would also have been nice to see a little more from him. But he has not embarrassed himself against Lando, he's stood up to the challenge and given a good showing and to be fair, he was extremely unlucky not to be the one winning in Miami because of luck that favoured Lando, and unlucky not to have won last week when he was penalised in Austria and lost his Q3. Whilst I think it was not right his lap was ruled out, he also needed to make sure it wasn't in question.

Well, I didn't say that Lando never made mistakes this year or in previous years. It's normal for a person to make mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that. It would be worse if Lando couldn't admit his mistakes. Emag is right to suggest that Lando is far from his best, but why say that this is his worst year? Again, outside the potential of the car and the speed, Lando makes mistakes. Others make mistakes too.

The team makes mistakes too. As if I'm happy about that.

And even the super-fast and super-stable Red Bull mechanics have shown that they can make mistakes. That's just one of the components. I try to take it calmly.

[venkyhere]

There are no objective answers to subjective questions

[LionsHeart]

There are no objective answers to subjective questions

Because the question is initially posed incorrectly. The person asks me for counterarguments to something for which he himself has not presented solid arguments. A reasonable objective question will always have a reasonable objective answer.

I don't mind spending a little personal time and finding counterarguments. But only after Emag finds the strength and gives good arguments in his favor. And I don't think the qualifications in Imola and Monaco are convincing.

[FittingMechanics]

Do you really need a counterargument? I remember that Lando makes mistakes every year. And this season is no different from the previous ones. You should be the one giving a full explanation of why Lando is so pathetic even compared to 2019. I am happy with Lando's performance, unlike you. So don't shift the blame.

The only difference in Lando's performances can be whether each mistake affects the final result or not. That's all. If even Max has started making mistakes under pressure, and in recent years he has been super stable. What's surprising? Go ahead, give your arguments fully and thoroughly.

I tend to agree that this year hasn't been that special from Lando. In previous years he used to outperform the car, either by having a great start, pulling out an outstanding lap in qualifying or by being super fast in a critical part of the race (last lap Lando).

This year it is more steady in both ways, both highs and lows. No big lows but no amazing performances either.

[Tomsky]

It's fun to read what a super racer Max is, apparently everyone has already forgotten about Vettel. For me, Max is still exclusively a product of RB. If he moves to another team and proves his worth with a strong partner, then we can talk about something.

[mwillems]

It's fun to read what a super racer Max is, apparently everyone has already forgotten about Vettel. For me, Max is still exclusively a product of RB. If he moves to another team and proves his worth with a strong partner, then we can talk about something.

His greatness is a debate not for the Mclaren thread I think. But Max is around today, is the world champion and the benchmark for Lando.

[LionsHeart]

Do you really need a counterargument? I remember that Lando makes mistakes every year. And this season is no different from the previous ones. You should be the one giving a full explanation of why Lando is so pathetic even compared to 2019. I am happy with Lando's performance, unlike you. So don't shift the blame.

The only difference in Lando's performances can be whether each mistake affects the final result or not. That's all. If even Max has started making mistakes under pressure, and in recent years he has been super stable. What's surprising? Go ahead, give your arguments fully and thoroughly.

I tend to agree that this year hasn't been that special from Lando. In previous years he used to outperform the car, either by having a great start, pulling out an outstanding lap in qualifying or by being super fast in a critical part of the race (last lap Lando).

This year it is more steady in both ways, both highs and lows. No big lows but no amazing performances either.

Lando has been very consistent this year. I follow the team statistics, fortunately one website makes a breakdown of the qualifications and races. If Lando had just finished second in Austria, he would have been the most consistent in the races. But he is not to blame for the accident, he did what he had to do there. In terms of pure speed and consistency, Lando has already surpassed himself in previous years. If you do not rely on the capabilities of the car and the final results, then Lando is great. And for some reason I can see this, but some do not. But my opinion will remain my own. Therefore, I say that I am happy with Lando's work. Even if not without his mistakes.

Some mistakes affect the final result, others do not. It all depends on what we want to bring into the equation to highlight Lando's weak points. Based on the capabilities of the car, Lando is currently second. Of course, not least thanks to the car. But Oscar also drives this car. He also has speed. He may not be as experienced, but he has speed, and his age is comparable.

I was unhappy with how qualifying went. But Lando remained calm. And I was even surprised. Maybe he knew from Friday that Mercedes would be strong? Could Lando have done his lap faster? Of course, yes. But we have what we have and we need to start from that, not from what hasn't happened yet.

[mwillems]

Yep, I can confirm that it is a nice day here and I'm 75 Miles from Silverstone!

Edit: wtf, I say that. some clouds appear and it starts to rain.

[LionsHeart]

Yep, I can confirm that it is a nice day here and I'm 75 Miles from Silverstone!

Edit: wtf, I say that. some clouds appear and it starts to rain.

Typical British weather.

[LionsHeart]

Brilliant, and that's fine. Stewards have not been giving flags for moving under breaking for ages, not even when Max was fighting over the past 5 years. And this is why I said previously that I do not blame the stewards. It is the FIA that need to set the precedent now and change the way the rules have been interpreted and applied, and it seems they have just started that. Let's hope there was some guidance sent to the stewards to ensure this is applied consistently and to all drivers, including front runners.

Tell me, why aren't the stewards responsible for this? Isn't that their job? Or does the race director decide everything? I think the stewards should have taken into account Max's trajectory during the defense. After all, it's their job to consider all potential violations. And the black and white flag, driving through the pit lane, where did all that go?

It's all strange. It's as if the stewards were given instructions from the outside that the leaders are allowed more than the rest.

[Tomsky]

It's fun to read what a super racer Max is, apparently everyone has already forgotten about Vettel. For me, Max is still exclusively a product of RB. If he moves to another team and proves his worth with a strong partner, then we can talk about something.

His greatness is a debate not for the Mclaren thread I think. But Max is around today, is the world champion and the benchmark for Lando.

That's what you think, I hope Lando thinks differently.

[Emag]

I wasn't joking. I just said you were a pessimist. Every season Lando made mistakes and every time he admitted them. Every season, be it qualifying or a race, Lando did it here and there. It's normal for a human. We're not watching robots. This year Lando makes fewer mistakes and these mistakes are not as big. But Lando's consistency has only increased.

You did not answer the question though. Since my take was so outrageous, where is your counterargument?

Do you really need a counterargument? I remember that Lando makes mistakes every year. And this season is no different from the previous ones. You should be the one giving a full explanation of why Lando is so pathetic even compared to 2019. I am happy with Lando's performance, unlike you. So don't shift the blame.

The only difference in Lando's performances can be whether each mistake affects the final result or not. That's all. If even Max has started making mistakes under pressure, and in recent years he has been super stable. What's surprising? Go ahead, give your arguments fully and thoroughly.

The highlighted words are your words not mine. You look at a statement and take it for face value removing context from it. A bad season for someone who is considered a top tier driver is still a good season of measure for an average driver. Just because they weren't perfect, it doesn't mean they are horrible.

Your inability to answer my question just proves my point. "No, you" is not an argument.

You would be challenged to find a true "perfect" weekend for Lando this year, whereas he has made mistakes pretty much throughout the entire year starting from qualifying in Bahrain, messing up his second lap in Q3, up to Silverstone now doing the same.

I listed a couple of things which turned out to be the most costly and discounted the many more errors he has made this year which may or may have not had a negative impact on results. You on the other hand, have failed to provide a single proper argument as to why do you personally think this is a strong season for Lando compared to pretty much all of his other seasons excluding his rookie year. I don't see why I should add further defense to my opinion & point of view when you have done nothing to refute it.

At this point, it looks like you respond just for the sake of arguing. You reject the premise because you want to reject it, not because you have convincing arguments to believe I am wrong.

I do not indulge in such discussions.

[Darth-Piekus]

Time for the Silverstone GP. Can the race go normally for Mclaren just once this year? Can we get an 1-2 for once?