2025 McLaren F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

"I don't know how this works for Honda, but in general these engines, they don't exhibit much degradation with mileage," he said.

"So that's why in general you wouldn't change an engine and accept a penalty, or a loss of positions, because normally the performance you get back doesn't really compensate for the positional losses.

"But, like I say, I'm not sure how the power degradation works for Honda.

So Stella doesnt know.

I was replying to your comment:

Path clear for Macca to get fresh engines.

[Macklaren]

If PIA qualifies outside the top 5, I can see them taking a new engine for him this weekend. His lower starting position here will offset any engine advantage he will have over Lando in the last 2 rounds

[Badger]

The grid penalty would be more penalising than whatever small pace advantage that would yield across the remaining races. It would just be a waste of cash.

Around Vegas I bet there will be a safety car. Those long straights will be peachy for a fresh engine running at full tilt.
Red Bull have an engine in their car now that has 350kms on it and can run it harder than any engine in McLarens pool.

I'd wait for the end of qualifying before deciding, but If Verstappen is out the top 3, no brainer....just go right ahead and do it. I mean it's a total mockery but that's what the FIA deem ok...so be it.

Well McLaren are lucky they have wiser leadership than that because they'd just be throwing away points and money. Stella even says his engines have little degradation so the upside isn't even there.

[Seerix]

They will not change the engine unless the driver does not make it out of Q1.

[Quantum]

Well McLaren are lucky they have wiser leadership than that because they'd just be throwing away points and money. Stella even says his engines have little degradation so the upside isn't even there.

And the high risk that a well worn engine pops and you lose 25 points to your title rival, who finished 2nd starting last in the previous race, with the added benefit of being able to run his engine harder. Wise indeed.

[SilviuAgo]

If PIA qualifies outside the top 5, I can see them taking a new engine for him this weekend. His lower starting position here will offset any engine advantage he will have over Lando in the last 2 rounds

Mmm, not sure about this. P5 is not that bad in Las Vegas. But "outside top 5" could mean P6, which is ok, but also P20, which is not ok

[search]

The Mercedes engine usually is solid enough, and doesn't have much degredation indeed. Ricciardo even made it through on three units in 2022, before the regulations were softened again.

[Badger]

Well McLaren are lucky they have wiser leadership than that because they'd just be throwing away points and money. Stella even says his engines have little degradation so the upside isn't even there.

And the high risk that a well worn engine pops and you lose 25 points to your title rival, who finished 2nd starting last in the previous race, with the added benefit of being able to run his engine harder. Wise indeed.

McLaren haven't taken a single engine penalty in the entire ground effect era. I think they know better than you when they are at "high risk" of an engine failure What you are advocating for is a pit lane start for no tangible benefit. I wouldn't call that wisdom, more like a RB present.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Of course it's not just about degradation, it's also about being able to run the PU in a more aggressive mode if it only has to last 3 weekends.

I agree with those saying McLaren won't do this unless they're out in Q1 though. Perhaps if they're back end of Q2, but not it they start top 10.

[Quantum]

McLaren haven't taken a single engine penalty in the entire ground effect era. I think they know better than you when they are at "high risk" of an engine failure What you are advocating for is a pit lane start for no tangible benefit. I wouldn't call that wisdom, more like a RB present.

So many things being ignored to suggest it an RB present. I mean they literally finished 2nd in Brazil.

Firstly Red Bull can run their Brazil engine in aggressive modes longer than McLaren.
A simple fact that is advantageous and a tangible benefit.

Secondly, there will be near zero reliability concerns for Red Bull as they have an extra engine in their pool.

Thirdly, the next 3 race tracks all have a higher time at full throttle than at Brazil.
Brazil being 59.9% of the Race at full throttle.
Vegas 67.9%
Abhu Dhabi 67.1%
Qatar 70.8%

You also manage the risk prudently for an engine failure that isnt going to hamper the cars performance. That it hasn't happened in 2025 doesnt mean it wont happen. Merc power units have suffered reliability issue this year and it is prudent to mitigate risk.

The incidents in question are:
Andrea Kimi Antonelli (Mercedes): Retired from the Emilia-Romagna Grand Prix (Imola) due to a throttle problem/electrical issue. He then retired from the Spanish Grand Prix due to an oil pressure loss in the engine.
Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin): Suffered an engine failure and retired during the Monaco Grand Prix.
Alex Albon (Williams): Retired from the Canadian Grand Prix due to a power unit issue.
George Russell (Mercedes): Had an electrical issue during Monaco Grand Prix qualifying which compromised his weekend.

Finally, I qualified my metric for swapping engines. IF Max qualifies outside the top 3, it literally is a no brainer to take the fresh engine. Verstappen literally needs to win all 3 races and the sprint and hope that Lando doesn't score more than 38 points in the next 3 races and one sprint.
His avg per race sits at around 16 points per weekend. Lando doesn't need to win. He needs to finish in the points

Now imagine a if McLaren suffered an engine failure and Max wins. 14 point gap and a 5 engine pool with 2 races and a sprint left.
Good leadership would note that and make the call to mitigate that risk.

[Badger]

Of course it's not just about degradation, it's also about being able to run the PU in a more aggressive mode if it only has to last 3 weekends.

I agree with those saying McLaren won't do this unless they're out in Q1 though. Perhaps if they're back end of Q2, but not it they start top 10.

ECU software is homologated before every season so ideas of suddenly running more aggressive PU modes is bunk AFAIK. Not that Merc would allow it anyways for a customer they are competing against. The benefit is simply that the engine has less natural degradation, but that is low for Merc PUs anyways.

[Badger]

McLaren haven't taken a single engine penalty in the entire ground effect era. I think they know better than you when they are at "high risk" of an engine failure What you are advocating for is a pit lane start for no tangible benefit. I wouldn't call that wisdom, more like a RB present.

So many things being ignored to suggest it an RB present. I mean they literally finished 2nd in Brazil.

Firstly Red Bull can run their Brazil engine in aggressive modes longer than McLaren.
A simple fact that is advantageous and a tangible benefit.

Finally, I qualified my metric for swapping engines. IF Max qualifies outside the top 3, it literally is a no brainer to take the fresh engine. Verstappen literally needs to win all 3 races and the sprint and hope that Lando doesn't score more than 38 points in the next 3 races and one sprint.
His avg per race sits at around 16 points per weekend. Lando doesn't need to win. He needs to finish in the points

Now imagine a if McLaren suffered an engine failure and Max wins. 14 point gap and a 5 engine pool with 2 races and a sprint left.
Good leadership would note that and make the call to mitigate that risk.

McLaren know how to manage the risk of an engine failure, they have a flawless track record for 4 years. I trust them a whole lot more on that than a guy who thinks RB finished 2nd in Brazil. A pit lane start for McLaren would be a needless gift to Verstappen in the championship. It would make it easier for him to win in Vegas, and it would make it very unlikely that McLaren finishes in the top 5 when all 4 top teams look competitive. That could be 15+ points in Verstappen's pocket which means that Lando puts himself within reach if he has a DNF in the last two races. Totally unnecessary for McLaren to give a gift like that to RB when they have no reason to suspect an imminent engine failure.

Moreover, if Lando DNFs and Max wins he's 24 points behind, not 14 as you say. Finally, you keep talking about these "aggressive engine modes", but as I said in another comment, I'm quite sure this isn't even allowed in the regulations now. The regulations state that you are only allowed one ECU homologation per year, so suddenly introducing more aggressive engine modes would be out of the question.

[Gillian]

McLaren haven't taken a single engine penalty in the entire ground effect era. I think they know better than you when they are at "high risk" of an engine failure What you are advocating for is a pit lane start for no tangible benefit. I wouldn't call that wisdom, more like a RB present.

So many things being ignored to suggest it an RB present. I mean they literally finished 2nd in Brazil.

Firstly Red Bull can run their Brazil engine in aggressive modes longer than McLaren.
A simple fact that is advantageous and a tangible benefit.

Finally, I qualified my metric for swapping engines. IF Max qualifies outside the top 3, it literally is a no brainer to take the fresh engine. Verstappen literally needs to win all 3 races and the sprint and hope that Lando doesn't score more than 38 points in the next 3 races and one sprint.
His avg per race sits at around 16 points per weekend. Lando doesn't need to win. He needs to finish in the points

Now imagine a if McLaren suffered an engine failure and Max wins. 14 point gap and a 5 engine pool with 2 races and a sprint left.
Good leadership would note that and make the call to mitigate that risk.

McLaren know how to manage the risk of an engine failure, they have a flawless track record for 4 years. I trust them a whole lot more on that than a guy who thinks RB finished 2nd in Brazil. A pit lane start for McLaren would be a needless gift to Verstappen in the championship. It would make it easier for him to win in Vegas, and it would make it very unlikely that McLaren finishes in the top 5 when all 4 top teams look competitive. That could be 15+ points in Verstappen's pocket which means that Lando puts himself within reach if he has a DNF in the last two races. Totally unnecessary for McLaren to give a gift like that to RB when they have no reason to suspect an imminent engine failure.

Moreover, if Lando DNFs and Max wins he's 24 points behind, not 14 as you say. Finally, you keep talking about these "aggressive engine modes", but as I said in another comment, I'm quite sure this isn't even allowed in the regulations now. The regulations state that you are only allowed one ECU homologation per year, so suddenly introducing more aggressive engine modes would be out of the question.

Afaik the software itself is homologated but different engine modes are allowed, including ERS deployment and fuel related. The homologation pertains to certain parameters being in an allowed window (rev limit, delays, etc).

[Badger]

Afaik the software itself is homologated but different engine modes are allowed, including ERS deployment and fuel related. The homologation pertains to certain parameters being in an allowed window (rev limit, delays, etc).

Running the ICE more "aggressively" would imply things like maybe changing ignition timings and RPM limits, and such things would surely be part of the ECU homologation, no? And where would these "spicy modes" come from? Presumably Merc is in control over the ICE modes and they need to be the same across all of their customer cars. One can't have a super mode available that none of the others can use.

[CjC]

Sooo, all this talk of ‘Red Bull running lower power modes’ in Friday practise is a load of bs because the ECU software is homologated pre-season?