2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[Ashwinv16]

Until the Aston stops on track or something is on fire, I won't be worried about reliability. The probelm is the tema hast crossed 330 kmph yet. They need to try and do this consistently in the next few days as thats the benchmark, considering the car is already in low drag spec.

[Ashwinv16]

Until the Aston stops on track or something is on fire, I won't be worried about reliability. The probelm is the tema hast crossed 330 kmph yet. They need to try and do this consistently in the next few days as thats the benchmark, considering the car is already in low drag spec.

[edu2703]

Confirmation they had to replace the PU due to an issue.

[Jambier]

Confirmation they had to replace the PU due to a issue.

What a disaster

[venkyhere]

Confirmation they had to replace the PU due to a issue.

What a disaster

If it's indeed the Honda PU (I hope it isn't) that's going to define 2026 for AMR, then the talents of Adrian Newey are wasted (assuming the AMR26 has god-level aero, a big assumption) , isn't ? A very simplified viewpoint, but not ridiculous.
(seems to me that Honda is the perennial ghost haunting Alonso)

[Badger]

Confirmation they had to replace the PU due to a issue.

What a disaster

If it's indeed the Honda PU (I hope it isn't) that's going to define 2026 for AMR, then the talents of Adrian Newey are wasted (assuming the AMR26 has god-level aero, a big assumption) , isn't ? A very simplified viewpoint, but not ridiculous.
(seems to me that Honda is the perennial ghost haunting Alonso)

How do you know the choices made by Adrian in terms of aero and packaging aren't contributing to the unreliability? Now that Adrian is TP he needs to own the total package. It may have been wise to show up with a bit of margin instead of pushing for "size zero" and being late.

[Nikosar]

Tomorrow reunion day : Alonso, Button Vandoorne and Honda

[venkyhere]

What a disaster

If it's indeed the Honda PU (I hope it isn't) that's going to define 2026 for AMR, then the talents of Adrian Newey are wasted (assuming the AMR26 has god-level aero, a big assumption) , isn't ? A very simplified viewpoint, but not ridiculous.
(seems to me that Honda is the perennial ghost haunting Alonso)

How do you know the choices made by Adrian in terms of aero and packaging aren't contributing to the unreliability? Now that Adrian is TP he needs to own the total package. It may have been wise to show up with a bit of margin instead of pushing for "size zero" and being late.

I don't. That's why I started the sentence with "IF".

[Leon Kennedy]

It's quite strange for me to see Honda facing so many reliability issues, even more than Audi, which has been doing okay so far. The combination of running with limited power mode, Mexico-spec cooling louvers, and still suffering from overheating is quite worrying.

It's still too early to call it McLaren Honda 2.0. We'll see if things improve in the coming days, but the initial indications aren't good.

At this point I'm curious if anyone has looked more deeply into Honda's organization when it returned to F1 versus when it left. Some say that those responsible for the Honda's project remained with Red Bull since 2021 and they lost the know-how. Others say the opposite. Who owns the intellectual property for the 2021 engine? Honda or Red Bull? Can Honda see the data for that engine? Well, I would like to know if anyone knows more about it and has studied this area in depth, because the recent performances of the Redbull powertrain suggest the first theory.

Good question. I don't think that Honda started "from zero" on this engine. From what I can gather, there was at least some staff leftover from the pre-2021 team but also there are significant additions or changes compared to that era. For example, I believe the Honda PU team is spread a lot further than just Japan. At the very least, I know that there is some involvement from the former HPD (now HRC US) team in North America. How much is unknown, but this was confirmed by Honda in 2023.

https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/re ... a-launches

The link is mostly PR drivel, but states "HRC’s auto racing development center in Japan currently supports Red Bull Powertrains, and is a vital part of the team’s F1 World Championship victories. Starting in 2026, HRC will partner with the Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant F1 team as the team’s official engine supplier. With three F1 races now in the U.S., the new HRC US will be involved in Formula One power unit development and race support starting in 2026."

I don't have any critical insider knowledge, other than knowing someone who works with HRC US on some of their American programs. From what I was told, there is a main Honda team that worked on the Red Bull engines until the engine freeze. Then, when Honda "pulled out" at least some of that team was offloaded onto things like the Acura/Honda LMDh project/next-gen IndyCar engine/hybrid project for a while. But they have since been put back on the F1 development team since the Aston partnership came about. Additionally, there is a contribution from the American side to at least some extent that was not there in the Red Bull era.

Like I said, I don't know to what extent this American team contributes, if it is a handful of people or a full-scale operation, but at least qualitatively I feel pretty confident in saying that the Honda PU in the AMR26 is produced by some amalgamation of the pre-2021 team and some of Honda's other internal divisions.

This is very interesting, the fact that some of the staff remained before the engine freeze reassures me.As you said, the engineers from the US team are probably experts in the hybrid used in IndyCar, in fact in recent statements Honda did not seem to have problems with the electric motor but with the ICE. M I still have doubts about whether they were able to use the 2021 engine data and how many staff have migrated to Redbull and who above all.

[zoroastar]

It's quite strange for me to see Honda facing so many reliability issues, even more than Audi, which has been doing okay so far. The combination of running with limited power mode, Mexico-spec cooling louvers, and still suffering from overheating is quite worrying.

It's still too early to call it McLaren Honda 2.0. We'll see if things improve in the coming days, but the initial indications aren't good.

At this point I'm curious if anyone has looked more deeply into Honda's organization when it returned to F1 versus when it left. Some say that those responsible for the Honda's project remained with Red Bull since 2021 and they lost the know-how. Others say the opposite. Who owns the intellectual property for the 2021 engine? Honda or Red Bull? Can Honda see the data for that engine? Well, I would like to know if anyone knows more about it and has studied this area in depth, because the recent performances of the Redbull powertrain suggest the first theory.

Good question. I don't think that Honda started "from zero" on this engine. From what I can gather, there was at least some staff leftover from the pre-2021 team but also there are significant additions or changes compared to that era. For example, I believe the Honda PU team is spread a lot further than just Japan. At the very least, I know that there is some involvement from the former HPD (now HRC US) team in North America. How much is unknown, but this was confirmed by Honda in 2023.

https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/re ... a-launches

The link is mostly PR drivel, but states "HRC’s auto racing development center in Japan currently supports Red Bull Powertrains, and is a vital part of the team’s F1 World Championship victories. Starting in 2026, HRC will partner with the Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant F1 team as the team’s official engine supplier. With three F1 races now in the U.S., the new HRC US will be involved in Formula One power unit development and race support starting in 2026."

I don't have any critical insider knowledge, other than knowing someone who works with HRC US on some of their American programs. From what I was told, there is a main Honda team that worked on the Red Bull engines until the engine freeze. Then, when Honda "pulled out" at least some of that team was offloaded onto things like the Acura/Honda LMDh project/next-gen IndyCar engine/hybrid project for a while. But they have since been put back on the F1 development team since the Aston partnership came about. Additionally, there is a contribution from the American side to at least some extent that was not there in the Red Bull era.

Like I said, I don't know to what extent this American team contributes, if it is a handful of people or a full-scale operation, but at least qualitatively I feel pretty confident in saying that the Honda PU in the AMR26 is produced by some amalgamation of the pre-2021 team and some of Honda's other internal divisions.

honda retains intellectual property on the old engine design. under the new rules they would have to completely redesign the combustion chamber as their old one is very illegal under the new rules. its not a 1 to 1 swap in the icu department as much as a lot of people have claimed. but, mercedes seem to have done a good job at it.

have they said for sure that the stoppage was caused by overheating issues, or is that just what people are deducing?

[zoroastar]

Yep, they will probably be beaten even by Cadillac and Audi

I have no doubt that Newey can get the weight down and improve the aero further, but if this engine is homologated in March with the overheating issues unresolved, then I do not see how Aston Martin is beating anyone this season.

Don't forget, "If a manufacturer's ICE is >3% below the best in performance, they gain additional development time and test bench running after the first five races."

theres been some talk that it could be increased too, as a way to get past the whole merc compression drama. i would think that the PU's should have as many updates as will fall under the cost cap when it comes to reliablity changes.

[CHT]

honda retains intellectual property on the old engine design. under the new rules they would have to completely redesign the combustion chamber as their old one is very illegal under the new rules. its not a 1 to 1 swap in the icu department as much as a lot of people have claimed. but, mercedes seem to have done a good job at it.

have they said for sure that the stoppage was caused by overheating issues, or is that just what people are deducing?

Sharing what I post in RB hardware topic.

Here is a breakdown of the manpower transition between RBPT (Honda assist partnership) and RBPT 2026 (RB).
Looking at the production team headcount, I reckon RBPT has already started producing Honda engine back in 2022 and RBPT26 has started taking over most of the R&D function from Honda since 2023.

By 2023, the RBR is already running RBPT 2026 engine without Honda IP obligation etc.

Adrian Newey decided to leave RBR back in early 2024, which mean he will have very little knowledge of RBPT powertrain development for 2026 engine. And this may be the reason why Honda PU may struggle this year.


RED BULL POWERTRAINS LIMITED
__________2021_2022_2023_2024
R&D______123__221___60___25
Production_9____121__52___18
Admin______65___97___23____1

RED BULL POWERTRAINS 2026 LIMITED
________________2022_2023_2024
R&D____________112__228__337
Production_______39__119__133
Admin___________15___18___55

[continuum16]

At this point I'm curious if anyone has looked more deeply into Honda's organization when it returned to F1 versus when it left. Some say that those responsible for the Honda's project remained with Red Bull since 2021 and they lost the know-how. Others say the opposite. Who owns the intellectual property for the 2021 engine? Honda or Red Bull? Can Honda see the data for that engine? Well, I would like to know if anyone knows more about it and has studied this area in depth, because the recent performances of the Redbull powertrain suggest the first theory.

Good question. I don't think that Honda started "from zero" on this engine. From what I can gather, there was at least some staff leftover from the pre-2021 team but also there are significant additions or changes compared to that era. For example, I believe the Honda PU team is spread a lot further than just Japan. At the very least, I know that there is some involvement from the former HPD (now HRC US) team in North America. How much is unknown, but this was confirmed by Honda in 2023.

https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/re ... a-launches

The link is mostly PR drivel, but states "HRC’s auto racing development center in Japan currently supports Red Bull Powertrains, and is a vital part of the team’s F1 World Championship victories. Starting in 2026, HRC will partner with the Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant F1 team as the team’s official engine supplier. With three F1 races now in the U.S., the new HRC US will be involved in Formula One power unit development and race support starting in 2026."

I don't have any critical insider knowledge, other than knowing someone who works with HRC US on some of their American programs. From what I was told, there is a main Honda team that worked on the Red Bull engines until the engine freeze. Then, when Honda "pulled out" at least some of that team was offloaded onto things like the Acura/Honda LMDh project/next-gen IndyCar engine/hybrid project for a while. But they have since been put back on the F1 development team since the Aston partnership came about. Additionally, there is a contribution from the American side to at least some extent that was not there in the Red Bull era.

Like I said, I don't know to what extent this American team contributes, if it is a handful of people or a full-scale operation, but at least qualitatively I feel pretty confident in saying that the Honda PU in the AMR26 is produced by some amalgamation of the pre-2021 team and some of Honda's other internal divisions.

This is very interesting, the fact that some of the staff remained before the engine freeze reassures me.As you said, the engineers from the US team are probably experts in the hybrid used in IndyCar, in fact in recent statements Honda did not seem to have problems with the electric motor but with the ICE. M I still have doubts about whether they were able to use the 2021 engine data and how many staff have migrated to Redbull and who above all.

The Indycar hybrid system is admittedly quite different so I’m not sure there’s that much carryover. But my point is that, although definitely diluted a bit, there should be at least some Honda personnel with previous F1 experience from pre-2021.

Their biggest problem is time. Everyone knows they started late. In 2015 they started late, with zero knowledge, *and* entered early.

This time they at least aren’t starting from absolute zero and they aren’t entering a year earlier than expected, but they are still behind.

If I had to say what we should expect from Honda this year I would put it at roughly 2016-levels of relative performance. Not as horrific as 2015 and 2017 but still a way off. That’s just my own opinion, not anything I’ve heard or anything.

[ispano6]

If I understand correctly, Honda are playing catch-up to accommodate a packaging and layout that forced them to go with the architecture that they have. Interestingly, at least from my recollection, the photos of the PU shown reminded me of the HRC/HPD Indy car engines.

[CHT]

If I understand correctly, Honda are playing catch-up to accommodate a packaging and layout that forced them to go with the architecture that they have. Interestingly, at least from my recollection, the photos of the PU shown reminded me of the HRC/HPD Indy car engines.

The ICE part of the engine is not the issue, but the cooling of the bigger battery that is constantly charging and discharging could pose a big challenge. Not sure if this will also create issue of fire.