Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mclaren has never been a Mercedes works team. Mercedes powered yes.
Anyone caring to argue should understand Mercedes return to f1 was in 2010 as Mercedes GP(aka silverarrows).

[Ozan]

I guess this sums up expectations so far

http://mercedesgp-fans.com/web/2012/01/ ... onrumours/

this should summarize everything.

[xpensive]

Mclaren has never been a Mercedes works team. Mercedes powered yes.
Anyone caring to argue should understand Mercedes return to f1 was in 2010 as Mercedes GP(aka silverarrows).

Identify "Works team" JET, I consider McLaren-Mercedes a works-team pre-2009, when they were the sole user of the MHPE engine and paid to do so, just as I beheld BMW Williams a works team. Before that MS was driving for Benetton-Ford works team.

[MercAMGF1Fans]

Mclaren has never been a Mercedes works team. Mercedes powered yes.
Anyone caring to argue should understand Mercedes return to f1 was in 2010 as Mercedes GP(aka silverarrows).

Identify "Works team" JET, I consider McLaren-Mercedes a works-team pre-2009, when they were the sole user of the MHPE engine and paid to do so, just as I beheld BMW Williams a works team. Before that MS was driving for Benetton-Ford works team.

Works team is when the Manufacturer has majority stakehold in the team.
Mercedes were a "partner" a larger partner than others with Mclaren, and during the early 00's Norb and emperor Ron we at logger heads when it came to norbert wanting to make Macca the WORKS team, where by majority ownership would have been with Daimler AG.

[xpensive]

Where is that written, I consider Red Bull as Renault's works team as well.

[raymondu999]

I have to say I'm with X on this one. McLaren; pre December 2009; could and should probably be defined as the MBHPE works team.

[NewtonMeter]

s/popular/contentious/. It seems to be the Lewis Hamilton of teams around here, always someone willing to slag them off or defend them to the death.

So true!

[marcush.]

I´d say as soon as you get a free supply and support from the engine manufacturer it´s " works "...even if the manufacturer chooses not to get drawn into it too much in public for whatever reason.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Works team by definition is the manufacturers factory team.

McLaren is its own works team, powered by Mercedes. Had Mercedes owned McLaren it would be the "works" team. As it stands Mercedes only ever had 40% of McLaren.
And marcush, by your definition Foce India is a Mercedes works team..... I think not!

The official return of the Mercedes Benz works team, was in 2010. You can say McLaren was Mercedes works team if you want to, but if you look at any record it will state a McLaren won the race with a Mercedes engine.
And red bull is its own works team with Renault power.

Renault no longer has a works team.

I think some people are being deliberately obtuse....

[wunderkind]

How did the information regarding Renault's RRH system become public? How did Ferrari get wind of Reanult's device? Was there a leak at the FIA or did someone took a picture of Renault cars and thought "what is that?"

[xpensive]

I think marcush got it right, FI is paying for their engines, while McLaren pre-2009 got a shitload of money from Daimler for the bother to run the best engine in he business, big difference that. Alain Prost's hopeless team was Peugeot's works team with free engines, as they were now, but still a works team.

There's no monopoly on the term JET, just because Mercedes is the only factory team on the grid.

[Cocles]

Are we really arguing over what a works team is? Like MercedesAMGF1Fans said, "Works team is when the Manufacturer has majority stakehold in the team." Renault can claim until the cows come home that RBR is their works team, but unless they own a majority stakehold, it's not.

Mercedes and McLaren were close partners... but McLaren was very consciously and adamantly not the Mercedes works team.

If you walked up to Ron Dennis when he was Team Principal and said, "Hey, so Haug wanted me to ask you what it's like running the Mercedes works team! " Ron probably would have punched you in the face.

[Cocles]

There's no monopoly on the term JET, just because Mercedes is the only factory team on the grid.

No. No monopoly. Just math. Black and white. Does the factory own the majority stakehold? Period.

Works = Factory Team.

[xpensive]

...
Black and white.
...

Good grief, why does debating with a three-pointed star supporter always have to go this way, you are not xactly doing yourself any favors with this kind of totalitarian argumentation?

I will always consider Williams of the early 90s as Renault's works team, that's my opinion and I resent anyone who's aiming at correcting me for semantic reasons.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+1 cocles

If people cannot see that by now, then chances are they never will.