2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

[Big Tea]

I am not that sure Ocon would be a better option than Bottas. If Merc take him I also feel sure it would be on short contract. Merc do not have to score 1-2 in every race, just enough to put them (safely) in front. They know exactly where they stand with Bottas

I still have a feeling Bottas will keep the seat warm for Russell

[Jambier]

On the other hand, what is the risk of taking Ocon ?

Worst scenario is that he is slow like Gasly, but I believe he can match Bottas speed, and allow Mercedes to evaluate him for the future.
Then of course if it is a Gasly like situation, they still have Russel for 2021.

[Big Tea]

On the other hand, what is the risk of taking Ocon ?

Worst scenario is that he is slow like Gasly, but I believe he can match Bottas speed, and allow Mercedes to evaluate him for the future.
Then of course if it is a Gasly like situation, they still have Russel for 2021.

The way things seem to be going Merc will have a harder fight in 21 than they will next year. The Honda RBR is developing very well and Ferrari in not performing as it should. They may see it as a case of taking whats on offer soonest rather than one missed is one gone for ever. (championships that is)

[pb6797]

The way things seem to be going Merc will have a harder fight in 21 than they will next year. The Honda RBR is developing very well and Ferrari in not performing as it should. They may see it as a case of taking whats on offer soonest rather than one missed is one gone for ever. (championships that is)

Interested in what makes you think that? I feel that the results this year flatter Mercedes, in reality they won at least a couple of races that should have gone to Ferrari and now Red Bull have closed the gap such that even the second half of the year looks like it will be a real fight - Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari who are miles ahead with straight line speed while Singapore could easily turn out to be a Red Bull track and Mexico may expose the high altitude cooling weakness of Mercedes again.

With no change to the regulations for 2020, on the current gaps it looks to me like that will be a close fight all year (and if Ferrari get their slow speed cornering sorted and/or Honda make another performance leap it may even be a walk over for a non-Mercedes team).

[GPR-A]

Interested in what makes you think that? I feel that the results this year flatter Mercedes, in reality they won at least a couple of races that should have gone to Ferrari and now Red Bull have closed the gap such that even the second half of the year looks like it will be a real fight - Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari who are miles ahead with straight line speed while Singapore could easily turn out to be a Red Bull track and Mexico may expose the high altitude cooling weakness of Mercedes again.

With no change to the regulations for 2020, on the current gaps it looks to me like that will be a close fight all year (and if Ferrari get their slow speed cornering sorted and/or Honda make another performance leap it may even be a walk over for a non-Mercedes team).

Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari? It's that time of the season when new power units would be brought to Spa. I posted an article in the W10 forum, as reported in Motorsport Italia, Petronas has brought a new fuel to Hungary, which is worth 18 HP! There is going to be a Spec 3 for Spa and a low down force package. All of which, should make Mercedes more "competitive".

Singapore could easily turn out to be a Red Bull track? Last year Lewis dominated with the new found low/medium corner speeds. If anything, we are yet to witness Red Bull's low and medium speed performance other than Hungary's one S3 performance. Whereas, Mercedes has dominated the low/medium speed corners this season. Hungary was more a case of Mercedes not having done better enough job in Hungary qualifying.

Mexico! Renault engines suffered much less in the high altitude of Mexico than other manufacturers, coupled with high downforce package of Red Bull in Mexico. Red Bull doesn't run them anymore! Last year, Mercedes were in doubt and in dilemma whether to run their new wheel rims and decided not to run it in race due to the fear of a protest, which messed up their car. Don't expect the story to be same. If Lewis wraps up the title before USGP, then they would have nothing to lose and would unleash everything from the car in the last phase of the season.

[Big Tea]

The way things seem to be going Merc will have a harder fight in 21 than they will next year. The Honda RBR is developing very well and Ferrari in not performing as it should. They may see it as a case of taking whats on offer soonest rather than one missed is one gone for ever. (championships that is)

Interested in what makes you think that? I feel that the results this year flatter Mercedes, in reality they won at least a couple of races that should have gone to Ferrari and now Red Bull have closed the gap such that even the second half of the year looks like it will be a real fight - Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari who are miles ahead with straight line speed while Singapore could easily turn out to be a Red Bull track and Mexico may expose the high altitude cooling weakness of Mercedes again.

With no change to the regulations for 2020, on the current gaps it looks to me like that will be a close fight all year (and if Ferrari get their slow speed cornering sorted and/or Honda make another performance leap it may even be a walk over for a non-Mercedes team).

Red Bull are improving, max is improving and one way or another the No 2 driver at Red Bull will be scoring more points next year. Ferrari, even when they are not right there will get in the mix which would cost Merc points, so I can only see it being harder for them. Their options are go with what you know or take a chance. The more teams fighting for wins, the more need there will be for the No 2 driver to step into the seat, and Bottas has shown he can do it. Yes, he has muffed up a few, but then again Ocon was not the clockwork finisher either.

Safe or roll the dice? Merc seem a safe option team unless things go wrong.

[astracrazy]

I am not that sure Ocon would be a better option than Bottas. If Merc take him I also feel sure it would be on short contract. Merc do not have to score 1-2 in every race, just enough to put them (safely) in front. They know exactly where they stand with Bottas

I still have a feeling Bottas will keep the seat warm for Russell

On the other hand, what is the risk of taking Ocon ?

Worst scenario is that he is slow like Gasly, but I believe he can match Bottas speed, and allow Mercedes to evaluate him for the future.
Then of course if it is a Gasly like situation, they still have Russel for 2021.

One advantage Merc will have when making this decision is they have a direct comparisons between the drivers when they both use there simulator.

[Bill_Kar]

On the other hand, what is the risk of taking Ocon ?

Worst scenario is that he is slow like Gasly, but I believe he can match Bottas speed, and allow Mercedes to evaluate him for the future.
Then of course if it is a Gasly like situation, they still have Russel for 2021.

Well, if Ocon performs like Gasly they risk losing WCC if RB is competitive.

But this might even happen with Bottas if he has a bad season (like 2018). I wouldn't be surprised if he finishes behind RB's second driver on evenly matched cars.

Anyway, i don't think Ocon will be much worse than Bottas. In contrast with Gasly, he has fared well against a decent benchmark (Perez)

[Pyrone89]

One of the advantages Ocon has over Bottas is that he has shown that he is willing to do anything to stop Verstappen from passing even if it means crashing, probably due to their history. And Verstappen is looking like Merc main rival now. Just a bit like how some drivers are totally useless in defending until their teammate is behind and they suddenly defend like their lives depend on it (Massa for example with Alonso after Hockenheim 2010)

[Big Tea]

One of the advantages Ocon has over Bottas is that he has shown that he is willing to do anything to stop Verstappen from passing even if it means crashing, probably due to their history. And Verstappen is looking like Merc main rival now. Just a bit like how some drivers are totally useless in defending until their teammate is behind and they suddenly defend like their lives depend on it (Massa for example with Alonso after Hockenheim 2010)

Is that a good thing? a second driver who would chose DNF to 3rd place and 15 points?
If he puts Max off I suppose it would help, but if it is a close fight with RBR and Ferrari it is giving points to Ferrari.

I may be wrong, but to my view getting points is the second drivers main job (behind the leader)

[Capharol]

okay i may dislike Ocon (I dislike almost every french driver) and he had his moments with Perez and Verstappen, but he is a good driver, is he good enough to hold off Verstappen? I doubt it, but hey he can try at least

[Wynters]

One of the advantages Ocon has over Bottas is that he has shown that he is willing to do anything to stop Verstappen from passing even if it means crashing, probably due to their history. And Verstappen is looking like Merc main rival now. Just a bit like how some drivers are totally useless in defending until their teammate is behind and they suddenly defend like their lives depend on it (Massa for example with Alonso after Hockenheim 2010)

You keep repeating this untruth. Verstappen turned into him in Brazil (whether Ocon should've been on the apex, where Verstappen knew he was, is another discussion for another thread) and, in the next race, when Verstappen overtook Ocon they clashed again. Far from it being what you are repeatedly presenting it as, Verstappen described it as "I thought to myself 'If he shuts the door, I'll push him off the track.' It may have been revenge for Brazil. I liked it. It felt good."

So, Ocon is not 'willing to do anything to stop Verstappen from passing even if it means crashing'. If anything, he seems to want to avoid crashing as, both times they've come together, Verstappen has been the one driving into him. Repeatedly claiming that 'black is white' or 'up is down' undermines the many other valid points you make.

It'd be the same if I constantly said that 'Gasly is being kept by Red Bull only because if the 2nd car was driven by someone competitive with Verstappen, then Verstappen would just crash into him constantly, just like he did to Ricciardo.' There's a seed of truth (Ricciardo and Verstappen came together a few times) but it's clearly not the actual truth and I imagine if I kept saying it you'd begin to suspect that I was a non-objective observer with an axe to grind.

[GPR-A]

okay i may dislike Ocon (I dislike almost every french driver) and he had his moments with Perez and Verstappen, but he is a good driver, is he good enough to hold off Verstappen? I doubt it, but hey he can try at least

Until he has the right equipment, the verdict has to be put on hold. Ocon has beaten Verstappen in F3, which is a fact and before he started his F1 career, there was definitely an aura around his talent. When any top class driver drives for mid-field teams, it starts to fade away in public eye. From the most recent memory, who knew how good Ricciardo was until he was promoted to RB in 2014? No big money was on him to get the seat and there were rumors of Kimi taking the seat vacated by Webber. We all know how that turned out. Same applies to Leclerc, while he had decent performance in Sauber, nothing was out of the world. But he now is proving to be a top talent.

Only time will tell if Ocon can live up to it. It's almost impossible for anyone to match Lewis. If Ocon gets beaten by Lewis, all he needs to do is stay close to him, both in quali and races. One thing Bottas did was to come close in qualifying, but is nowhere in races. If Ocon can do better than Bottas in races, along with doing well in quali, then he has time on his side to achieve bigger things. Ocon has beaten Perez in qualifying, hand down. So there is one lap pace.

[Pyrone89]

okay i may dislike Ocon (I dislike almost every french driver) and he had his moments with Perez and Verstappen, but he is a good driver, is he good enough to hold off Verstappen? I doubt it, but hey he can try at least

Until he has the right equipment, the verdict has to be put on hold. Ocon has beaten Verstappen in F3, which is a fact and before he started his F1 career, there was definitely an aura around his talent. When any top class driver drives for mid-field teams, it starts to fade away in public eye. From the most recent memory, who knew how good Ricciardo was until he was promoted to RB in 2014? No big money was on him to get the seat and there were rumors of Kimi taking the seat vacated by Webber. We all know how that turned out. Same applies to Leclerc, while he had decent performance in Sauber, nothing was out of the world. But he now is proving to be a top talent.

Only time will tell if Ocon can live up to it. It's almost impossible for anyone to match Lewis. If Ocon gets beaten by Lewis, all he needs to do is stay close to him, both in quali and races. One thing Bottas did was to come close in qualifying, but is nowhere in races. If Ocon can do better than Bottas in races, along with doing well in quali, then he has time on his side to achieve bigger things. Ocon has beaten Perez in qualifying, hand down. So there is one lap pace.

Beat is a strong word for what actually happened. Verstappen had an engine penalty relegatimg him to the back 3 times in a row and was driving for a midfield team who had yet to win. Ocon had the Prema powerhouse team.

Also Wynther, I disagree with you. Ocon shouldnt have been there in the first place as a lapped var. As a driver you dont expect someone to do that so it is not ‘Verstappen’ steered into him. And go look athendiscussions at that time to see what others think of it and see you are in a small minority who think otherwise.

[Capharol]

I find it a bit strange that now Bottas had a few bad drives, he is being writen off so easily.

AusGP: 1st
Bah: 2nd
Chin: 2nd
Aze: 1st
Spain: 2nd
Monaco: 3rd
France: 2nd
Austria: 3rd
England: 2nd

only Germany and Hungary were bad, and in Germany the whole Mercedes team was bad, so i don't understand why ppl suddenly saying he isn't good enough