Personally I'd go withTeechnical wrote:Alonso's win:
20% luck.
50% consistency.
30% Alonso.
I'd like to rule out luck entirely. Why and how? Stay tuned...beelsebob wrote:Personally I'd go withTeechnical wrote:Alonso's win:
20% luck.
50% consistency.
30% Alonso.
40% luck, 10% consistency and 50% Alonso today. The guy was on fire today, but it did require a *big* slice of luck to get that far up.
Not bad luck for Vettel is not the same thing as not good luck for Alonso. Vettel may well have caused the failure, that doesn't mean Alonso wasn't lucky that it happened.Vanja #66 wrote:I'd like to rule out luck entirely. Why and how? Stay tuned...beelsebob wrote:Personally I'd go withTeechnical wrote:Alonso's win:
20% luck.
50% consistency.
30% Alonso.
40% luck, 10% consistency and 50% Alonso today. The guy was on fire today, but it did require a *big* slice of luck to get that far up.
We'll all agree that Alonso made it on his own (no luck there, pure skill) to 4th position. From then on, it's anyone's guess. I think he would have won even if there was no SC. Grosjean's E20 and Vettel's RB8 would have failed anyway. Their problems were down to their way of driving, Seb was a maniac, going 1s faster than Hamilton at the beginning, even though that's not the real difference between the pair. Romain was driving almost a half of his race behind someone, that's a killer in hot races. On the other hand, Webber and Kimi finished 4th and 2nd, and thay have same engines and cars, yet they didn't share the same fate. I'm putting Seb and Romain's problems and their sholuders, and I believe that they were going to retire even without the SC. That leaves Hamilton, Alonso is now 2nd (in theory of course).
Personally, I'd say that incident with the jack in McLaren's box is due to pressure and chaos brought by all-of-a-sudden need to pit. So, it's logical to think that the difference between Lewis and Alonso would have been around 4s (as it was on the end of 2nd stint) on start of third stint. 5 fastest laps by Alonso when he was leading Grosjean allow me to believe that he would have cut the difference to Hamilton to 1s - enough for DRS. From then on it would take him at least 3 laps to overtake him, or at least he could wait for Lewis' tires to go off. It would have happened because it did happen.
Sounds arrogant, but that's the way I see it, and there are many facts that make it plausible...
If your opponent's unforced error is now your luck, that's OK...beelsebob wrote: Not bad luck for Vettel is not the same thing as not good luck for Alonso. Vettel may well have caused the failure, that doesn't mean Alonso wasn't lucky that it happened.
If you start 24th, and the other 23 drivers all drive straight on at the first turn... is that lucky? Sure is! Anything that's out of your control, and is of benefit to you is in my book lucky.Vanja #66 wrote:If your opponent's unforced error is now your luck, that's OK...beelsebob wrote: Not bad luck for Vettel is not the same thing as not good luck for Alonso. Vettel may well have caused the failure, that doesn't mean Alonso wasn't lucky that it happened.
No, it's not if they haven't suffered a problem (any kind of it) that has nothing to do with themselves [causing it]. Anyway, no point in discussing this further, clearly we have different basic points of view on the subject.beelsebob wrote:If you start 24th, and the other 23 drivers all drive straight on at the first turn... is that lucky? Sure is! Anything that's out of your control, and is of benefit to you is in my book lucky.
Did anyone say anything that suggested there was any getting over to do?amouzouris wrote:luck or no luck ALONSO won...get over it!
i am sorry..it wasn't necessarily targeted to you beelsebob! your opinion is highly respected by me.... it was targeted for the haters who are going to be going on and on about it!beelsebob wrote:Did anyone say anything that suggested there was any getting over to do?amouzouris wrote:luck or no luck ALONSO won...get over it!
Well... Bob's hint for the day is... if you don't want the haters to get all up and in your face, don't get up and in their face – don't say things like "ALONSO won... get over it!" and people won't feel like they have to justify that their most-awesome-driver-ever is better.amouzouris wrote:i am sorry..it wasn't necessarily targeted to you beelsebob! your opinion is highly respected by me.... it was targeted for the haters who are going to be going on and on about it!beelsebob wrote:Did anyone say anything that suggested there was any getting over to do?amouzouris wrote:luck or no luck ALONSO won...get over it!
well those two news negate each other. how can they say that alonso could be in P2 and then say ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately?MBilcke wrote:Can someone confirm that a Ferrari teammember told Bernie that Alonso f*cked up in quali, and could have been in P2 ...
and that Massa told Bernie that Ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately. I heard these things on Belgian television, but could not find it here immediately ...
Bernie would have thought so too I suppose. Massa trying to save his face?radosav wrote:well those two news negate each other. how can they say that alonso could be in P2 and then say ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately?MBilcke wrote:Can someone confirm that a Ferrari teammember told Bernie that Alonso f*cked up in quali, and could have been in P2 ...
and that Massa told Bernie that Ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately. I heard these things on Belgian television, but could not find it here immediately ...
