Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[dren]

Sorry for the offtopic, but can a team store fuel in a second tank after flow sensor on their out lap so to exceed the fuel flow limit on their timed lap..?

No

[Wil992]

No, all fuel must be kept in a single tank and the only fuel allowed outside the tank has to be for "normal running of the engine", I doubt a second tank with the purpose of bypassing the fuel flow refs could be classed as "normal running". And in any case there is a maximum amount of fuel that can outside the tank at any time.

[Dimi]

No, all fuel must be kept in a single tank and the only fuel allowed outside the tank has to be for "normal running of the engine"

They could claim it is a swirl pot..

[Wil992]

They can claim whatever they want.

"5.10.5 Any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate after the measurement point is prohibited."

[etusch]

There must be standart oil and fuel

[diffuser]

Sorry for the offtopic, but can a team store fuel in a second tank after flow sensor on their out lap so to exceed the fuel flow limit on their timed lap..?

No

Honda tried that back in the day with Bar/Honda ... They had a 2nd hidden tank. The idea was that the 2nd tank made them meet the min car weight. The rules included refueling in those days. Once the first tank was empty the car was running under weight. People started to notice that the end of those stints they got really fast.

[godlameroso]

There must be standart oil and fuel

From what I can gather, there is no restrictions on the oil type, there are restrictions on the fuel composition, however there is still development in the fuel. I'm curious as to what they can develop in the fuel, how do they tailor it to the combustion concept? Do they use lower or higher octane, or special anti-knock additives, or what?

[etusch]

I mean that, like one tyre supplier there must be one official supplier for fuel and oil too. Fia must do deal with some brand for this. All the teams must use same oil and same fuel. For example petronas is official fuel supplier and castrol official oil supplier. And all these products must be taken from one tank. So they cant contol over teams oil and fuel.

[Anony Mous Engineerd]

There has been some mention of assistance from Mercedes on the Honda power unit. Although to me it seams far fetched but could be releasing a supplier from a non exclusive arrangement. Can anyone confirm that the original Mercedes Turbo direct injection V6 development engine was designed and built by Advanced Engine Research (AER) Ltd, was AVL originally involved in the combustion design or were they involved later. Does anyone know if Honda are working with AER or AVL on combustion.

Honda cars, the road ones, not F1, definitely are working with AVL and heavily use the AVL fire/ excite software suite in development... AVL replaced Ricardo Vectis as a development tool at HRAO about 10 years ago...

It's not a far leap to assume F1 is probably using the same AVL software..

[FW17]

There must be standart oil and fuel

From what I can gather, there is no restrictions on the oil type, there are restrictions on the fuel composition, however there is still development in the fuel. I'm curious as to what they can develop in the fuel, how do they tailor it to the combustion concept? Do they use lower or higher octane, or special anti-knock additives, or what?

There are also no restriction on lubricant infection points or if certain channels can be closed off.

There were also discussions on the pre chamber nozzle soot. Maybe an separate anti fouling agent is being used to clear the nozzle. This probably is premixed with fuel post the fuel metering unit. Again fia has no control or specification to additives required for reliability of the engine.

[ispano6]

There has been some mention of assistance from Mercedes on the Honda power unit. Although to me it seams far fetched but could be releasing a supplier from a non exclusive arrangement. Can anyone confirm that the original Mercedes Turbo direct injection V6 development engine was designed and built by Advanced Engine Research (AER) Ltd, was AVL originally involved in the combustion design or were they involved later. Does anyone know if Honda are working with AER or AVL on combustion.

Not sure what the current situation is today, but this article tries to make it seem Honda is using MB F1 turbos, but the company manufacturing Honda F1 turbos is Japanese.

Germany's Speed Week, and Italian media sources, report that the Japanese manufacturer will have its turbo made by a Tokyo-based company called IHI.

IHI, formerly Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries, has solid links to Mercedes parent Daimler, having set up a joint venture in Germany some years ago to design and manufacture turbo units.

From 7-11-2014
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... -f1-turbo/

[peterg]

I am think the fuel flow rate regulations were tightened after it was thought that there was some storage in the fuel pressure regulator.

/03/23/new-f1-fuel-flow-controversy-looming-ahead/

Seams that there are less loopholes in this area currently.

[ALO_Power]

Isn't it possible that all these rumors about Mercedes helping everyone are spread just to praise Mercedes and take away the credit from other manufacturers ? We've also heard that Mercedes helped Ferrari maaaany times (from 2015) and now we see where Ferrari is. I think we also heard that Mercedes helped Renault and now it's Honda's turn. Always just right before a manufacturer improves. Dunno, what's the truth but these rumors make it look like Mercedes is a charity helper.

[HPD]

- Honda has also revamped the intake system and injector to the extent that the seal that restricts the development of ICE (engine main body) is not made, and has evolved to "specification 2". This alone achieved about 0.13 seconds in lap time, nearly 10 kW (about 13.6 horsepower) performance improvement in output. This is never a small advance, as the general improvement of the power unit over the year is 30 to 50 hp

- Hasegawa: "The update is similar to the specification 2 that we launched in last year's British Grand Prix, but the power improvement range is bigger than that, it can be said that it is big enough as an update during the season, especially low Since the output on the rotating side has increased greatly, it is clear from the data that the oscillation (resonance) of the rotation number is considerably improved as the effect."

- Matt Morris: "There is still a difference of 2 seconds from the top, which is a big difference, I know how many seconds I have lost with the power unit, and I am satisfied with the competitive (competitive state) as a chassis It is not yet perfect and there are places to improve both aerodynamically and mechanically.It needs more effort to catch up with the Mercedes AMG and Ferrari which are coming out of the other team but although we are also in the car body I think it is possible to catch up behind them."

- Matt Morris: "We have a 70 kW difference against Mercedes AMG because they will increase the output by 15 to 20 kW in the qualifying session.Sochi has a large power effect (the effect on the output time) is large, usually about 0.2 It will be about 0.25 sec / 10 kW at the time of sec / 10 kW, which means ... you can figure it out by calculating it?

- In other words, in the Russian GP, ​​1.75 seconds out of the 3 seconds difference is said to be the power unit, the remaining 1.25 seconds was the difference of the car body. As the performance of the car "4th place not to Red Bull" (Morris), the difference with the middle group such as Williams and Renault was also quite small.

# translated by Google
From: https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... /index.php

[kptaylor]

I wonder if all of this talk about Mercedes "helping" other teams is nothing more than contractual terms they signed with a supplier. Think TJI. If they spent money with a supplier to develop certain technology fully for F1 use, they may have the right to refuse to allow the supplier to work with other teams unless they formally agree. Maybe "helping" Ferrari and "helping" McLaren is nothing more than allowing a supplier to work with those teams.