2025 McLaren F1 Team

[Darth-Piekus]

Oh yeah, Max made mistakes, but was still better than our boys - though I will be clear, I do think that the car suits him and he can drive it very well, I don't think it is all Max as some of the RB fans like to portray. That doesn't bother me though, as I've said before. I'm happy with our boys, though if we get into a tight fight next year and these margins count more, then it changes things, but they have time to improve and as I've said before, I feel that Oscars peak will exceed Lando, not that that counts for anything today.

Better is a matter of opinion. He does have favoritism and is allowed to be aggressive. Our boys cant do that. I would prefer to make a comparison when every driver is treated the same way.

[mwillems]

Oh yeah, Max made mistakes, but was still better than our boys - though I will be clear, I do think that the car suits him and he can drive it very well, I don't think it is all Max as some of the RB fans like to portray. That doesn't bother me though, as I've said before. I'm happy with our boys, though if we get into a tight fight next year and these margins count more, then it changes things, but they have time to improve and as I've said before, I feel that Oscars peak will exceed Lando, not that that counts for anything today.

Better is a matter of opinion. He does have favoritism and is allowed to be aggressive. Our boys cant do that. I would prefer to make a comparison when every driver is treated the same way.

Unfortunately I don't think it is that subjective, we definitely made a lot of errors.
Luckily, there was usually another Mclaren driver to mop up and for the first half of the season, a poor race would still likely get a podium.

Like I said before, When Lando had his issues at the start of the season, the car was still substantially better and so he still got big points. Fortunately Lando came good when it counted and unfortunately for Oscar, he struggled when other cars continued to develop and catch up, and we drew a line on the 25 car.

[mzso]

The mp4-13 definitley doesn't belong in this list. It was dominant in one race only. Where two thirds of drivers DNF-ed, including Schumacher.

The third driver who was Villeneuve ended one lap behind and generally that year it is written that Andrian Newey's design beat the Michael.

It was rather balanced in the rest of the year. It was more Like Häkkinen who defeated Schumacher.

[chrisc90]

I’d still think that McLaren have the favouritism edge to Lando.

I saw this posted on one comment thread on Social media so not 100% sure on the accuracy

[FittingMechanics]

Oh yeah, Max made mistakes, but was still better than our boys - though I will be clear, I do think that the car suits him and he can drive it very well, I don't think it is all Max as some of the RB fans like to portray. That doesn't bother me though, as I've said before. I'm happy with our boys, though if we get into a tight fight next year and these margins count more, then it changes things, but they have time to improve and as I've said before, I feel that Oscars peak will exceed Lando, not that that counts for anything today.

Lando had his crash into Oscar in Canada, what were the other mistakes by Lando?
Oscar had his crash into Lando in Austin, Baku overdriving and crash? Am I missing something.

I agree that Max is more clinical, he extracts more from the car, he puts more pressure on other drivers, but he is not perfect.

[chrisc90]

Oh yeah, Max made mistakes, but was still better than our boys - though I will be clear, I do think that the car suits him and he can drive it very well, I don't think it is all Max as some of the RB fans like to portray. That doesn't bother me though, as I've said before. I'm happy with our boys, though if we get into a tight fight next year and these margins count more, then it changes things, but they have time to improve and as I've said before, I feel that Oscars peak will exceed Lando, not that that counts for anything today.

Lando had his crash into Oscar in Canada, what were the other mistakes by Lando?
Oscar had his crash into Lando in Austin, Baku overdriving and crash? Am I missing something.

I agree that Max is more clinical, he extracts more from the car, he puts more pressure on other drivers, but he is not perfect.

Lap 1 turn 1 losing the position is a big one.
I’d also say Lando often doesn’t get the overtake done as quickly as he should.

[FittingMechanics]

What could be the reason that Max did not have to fight a team mate ...

Maybe it's the fact that he didn't have competent one since Ricciardo?

Perez was quite good, I suspect he had some slight decline but also the car became hard for him to handle but he was good for a while.

It's not a coincidence that these young drivers look very strong in the sister car. I think the car was always very very strong when it could be handled, but you needed to be a top driver and probably quite an experienced driver to handle it.

You might compare it to a wild mustang, huge amounts of raw speed, very hard to handle.

Luckily for the WCC a second driver wasn't able to make a dent on Mclaren in the WCC, but it did help Max in the WDC, being the focal point of the team.

Perez (and other Red Bull drivers) have a huge issue that the gaps became so small so when they are a few tenths down on Max they tend to end up much lower in qualifying. This then exaggerates the difference. I also think that they use the second car as a sort of test/mule car that does the dirty work for Verstappen even if it hurts the second driver. This is obviously great for them as they prioritize WDC success but it will make life hard for these second drivers coming into Max's team.

[FittingMechanics]

Lap 1 turn 1 losing the position is a big one.
I’d also say Lando often doesn’t get the overtake done as quickly as he should.

OK, losing some positions at the start is a fair complaint but he didn't lose that many points because of it. And he improved a lot in this respect.

Pole Australia - won
Pole Monaco - won
Pole Austria - won
Pole Belgium - P2 (Piastri won but I don't think he lost position at the start)
Pole Mexico - won
Pole Brazil - won
Pole Vegas - DSQ - Max won, NOR was in P2

In Vegas he was already in "protect the lead" mode so I think it's unfair to call it a mistake.

[Darth-Piekus]

Unfortunately I don't think it is that subjective, we definitely made a lot of errors.
Luckily, there was usually another Mclaren driver to mop up and for the first half of the season, a poor race would still likely get a podium.

Like I said before, When Lando had his issues at the start of the season, the car was still substantially better and so he still got big points. Fortunately Lando came good when it counted and unfortunately for Oscar, he struggled when other cars continued to develop and catch up, and we drew a line on the 25 car.

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

[bauc]

I’d still think that McLaren have the favouritism edge to Lando.

I saw this posted on one comment thread on Social media so not 100% sure on the accuracy

https://ibb.co/Gvnrp8pH

LOL bias 1.0.1

[chrisc90]

Lap 1 turn 1 losing the position is a big one.
I’d also say Lando often doesn’t get the overtake done as quickly as he should.

OK, losing some positions at the start is a fair complaint but he didn't lose that many points because of it. And he improved a lot in this respect.

Pole Australia - won
Pole Monaco - won
Pole Austria - won
Pole Belgium - P2 (Piastri won but I don't think he lost position at the start)
Pole Mexico - won
Pole Brazil - won
Pole Vegas - DSQ - Max won, NOR was in P2

In Vegas he was already in "protect the lead" mode so I think it's unfair to call it a mistake.

I just don’t think Lando (or the team) is clinical enough to maximise every opportunity which is what you need when you’re in a championship battle. Which was why it’s gone down to the final race of the season, and not being able to chase down a 50point gap last season with a winning car.

No disrespect to Lando, as it’s the points tally at the end that decides the WDC.

[chrisc90]

Unfortunately I don't think it is that subjective, we definitely made a lot of errors.
Luckily, there was usually another Mclaren driver to mop up and for the first half of the season, a poor race would still likely get a podium.

Like I said before, When Lando had his issues at the start of the season, the car was still substantially better and so he still got big points. Fortunately Lando came good when it counted and unfortunately for Oscar, he struggled when other cars continued to develop and catch up, and we drew a line on the 25 car.

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

I think that’s a bit of a tough accusation to make when there is no proof it is factual. Have you any evidence of this? Can’t see RB and RBR sharing setup information when the aero platforms, and drivers requirements are completely different. Might aswell say they ask McLaren for their setup information too as it’s about the same comparison.

[Emag]

I’d still think that McLaren have the favouritism edge to Lando.

I saw this posted on one comment thread on Social media so not 100% sure on the accuracy

https://ibb.co/Gvnrp8pH

It's total fanboism.

In Hungary Lando was out of the contention after the bad start. McLaren did what any team would and covered Leclerc with Piastri. Lando had nothing to lose so he went for an alternative strategy with a 1-stopper (which only worked because his pace was really strong by the way). There was no favoritism at all.

I called the Monza swap before it even happened here, because I thought it was the right thing to do. I think I specifically called them "braindead" for putting themselves into that position. It was entirely unnecessary. Lando had the gap to Oscar, he was the faster car in the race. But the gap shrunk as they navigated lapped cars. Because they waited too long, Oscar was at a risk of losing track position to Leclerc, so they asked Lando "can we pit Oscar first", to which he replied "as long as he doesn't come out ahead of me, sure".

So in short, why did it make sense to swap them?

1 - They messed up and waited too long to pit so that Lando's gap to Oscar disappeared.
2 - They gave undercut value to Oscar (out-lap much faster than in-lap) even though he was the 2nd car.
3 - They messed up Lando's pit stop, which honestly is not even relevant here. They messed it up as a team. The pit stop shouldn't have been relevant at all. Had they pit 3-4 laps earlier in the "correct" order, the slow stop wouldn't even matter, Lando would have come out ahead anyway.

I have nothing to say about Singapore. Oscar left the door open and Lando took it. I am pretty sure the only reason they made contact was because the overnight rain had made the off-line a little slippery, although they tried to frame it as "avoiding Max". Racing incident.

And Qatar is particularly funny how they frame it as a -7 for Oscar but a N/A for Lando. If McLaren did the sensible thing it would have ended 1-2-3 (Oscar-Max-Lando).

[Balalu]

Unfortunately I don't think it is that subjective, we definitely made a lot of errors.
Luckily, there was usually another Mclaren driver to mop up and for the first half of the season, a poor race would still likely get a podium.

Like I said before, When Lando had his issues at the start of the season, the car was still substantially better and so he still got big points. Fortunately Lando came good when it counted and unfortunately for Oscar, he struggled when other cars continued to develop and catch up, and we drew a line on the 25 car.

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

I think that’s a bit of a tough accusation to make when there is no proof it is factual. Have you any evidence of this? Can’t see RB and RBR sharing setup information when the aero platforms, and drivers requirements are completely different. Might aswell say they ask McLaren for their setup information too as it’s about the same comparison.

It's impossible to have proof. Discussions at the cafè are impossible to regulate, and they do happen, especially were money is involved. Thinking otherwise is naive. RedBull should be forced to sell the second team.

On another note, I'm surprised that yesterday's McLaren masterclass strategy has been largely unremarked. So many are quick to poo on them when they mess up, but they even outsmarted the famed RedBull strategy team. Yesterday was pure class from them.

[chrisc90]

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

I think that’s a bit of a tough accusation to make when there is no proof it is factual. Have you any evidence of this? Can’t see RB and RBR sharing setup information when the aero platforms, and drivers requirements are completely different. Might aswell say they ask McLaren for their setup information too as it’s about the same comparison.

It's impossible to have proof. Discussions at the cafè are impossible to regulate, and they do happen, especially were money is involved. Thinking otherwise is naive. RedBull should be forced to sell the second team.

On another note, I'm surprised that yesterday's McLaren masterclass strategy has been largely unremarked. So many are quick to poo on them when they mess up, but they even outsmarted the famed RedBull strategy team. Yesterday was pure class from them.

Equally naive to look at it from the other way too then. I’d even say it’s worse to accuse them of doing something they aren’t.

Re strategy. I wouldn’t say it was outclassed. Piastri went long, and Max gained a whole pitstop deficit on him by the end of the race.
But doing things like that and making it hard for Red bull to do anything is what they should have been doing all season when it’s 2 cars vs 1 and they fail to challenge for the win vs max.
Overall, there was little red bull could do to get Max the WDC on strategy. It would have needed Lando to have serious misfortune or a DNF really. Lando would have had to have been P5 realistically for Red Bull to get the WDC. (P4 Oscar would have just boxed and come out behind Lando or parked the car allowing Lando P3)

I think once Red bull could see there was no threat from behind to Lando, it was a sealed deal. Charles tries for a handful of laps, then it was done and dusted. All McLaren had to do was copy Charles strategy to protect from the undercut. Nothing masterclass in my opinion. It was a easy cruise and WDC race for Lando in reality