2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Venturiation]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

I’m really surprised that they are doing such a big change in the last year of the regulations, it seems like they think they got it wrong 4 years in a row now?

To get data for 2026

[bananapeel23]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

I’m really surprised that they are doing such a big change in the last year of the regulations, it seems like they think they got it wrong 4 years in a row now?

Exactly what i am saying why do it now, its not like this car is far off the top that we need this kind of big change.

Clearly they see the inability of the suspension to cope with too much load as a hinderance in terms of brining further upgrades without inducing bouncing. They went with a suspension setup that didn't put too much energy into the tyres and expected that any tyre warming issues would resolve themselves by putting more downforce onto the car. Once they did start bringing upgrades that gave them more downforce, the car started suffering from bouncing.

My speculation:

They have clearly partially resolved the bouncing issues and brought the car into a more workable window, but we don't know how large the compromises in peak downforce they had to make in order to get the car to work again. They are clearly suffering from warmup issues again, which they seemingly didn't post-Canada, pre-Monza. That would indicate that they were forced to give up a not insignificant of load in order to get the car to behave.

Taken as a whole, there seems to be a fundamental limitation with just how much downforce the car and suspension can cope with. They obviously have more than in Bahrain, but given the fact that the latest floor iterations have given up many local load generating elements like kicks, the suspension only seems to work with a very particular load distribution. Disturb that distribution by adding "easy" downforce through local load generating elements and the suspension simply seems to give up. There is probably more downforce they can gain within the narrow window where the suspension still works, but even more if they can bring a suspension setup that works in a wider load distribution window.

They probably want to change the suspension in order to make the car work in a wider load distribution window without inducing bouncing so that they can more easily extract performance from the floor. They seem to think the current suspension setup is fundamentally limiting the development potential of the car. Is it worth the risk? I have no clue, but Ferrari clearly seems to think so.

Vanja feel free to correct me if I'm just talking nonsense.

[AR3-GP]

As for Baku and Singapore, both issues are car related. It doesn't generate heat in tyres quickly enough and it suffers in Q and cold races. Leclerc lost about 4s to Piastri and almost all of it was in his outlap in Baku.

It's catch 22. This is also why Ferrari has no tire wear this season.

[CjC]

Go easy on me, it’s took a lot of ‘courage’ for me to post this

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alons ... /10657674/

Alonso reckons Ferrari had the ‘fastest car all weekend’ in Singapore

[Vanja #66]

Vanja feel free to correct me if I'm just talking nonsense.

That's one of several valid explanations I see of events in the past period, bar several tiny details. I will skip on those as I'm not anywhere near knowledgable enough to discuss suspension detail, so I don't want to misslead anyone reading

However, pull rod vs push rod is typically mostly about aero and packaging. There is a feature of pull rod design, where you need to be careful of pull rod angle to horizontal plane, if it's too small you induce crazy amount of load in the rod. Even if it isn't, it can get more load than a push rod experiences in most cases. Other than that, both concepts have their well-known operation and packaging differences and details and the choice between the two does not necesarily influence any aspect of vehicle dynamics, if you've designed them both properly and taking into account all details. Also, pull rod sits lower in the tub, so it lowers CoG a tiny bit

[AR3-GP]

Vanja feel free to correct me if I'm just talking nonsense.

That's one of several valid explanations I see of events in the past period, bar several tiny details. I will skip on those as I'm not anywhere near knowledgable enough to discuss suspension detail, so I don't want to misslead anyone reading

However, pull rod vs push rod is typically mostly about aero and packaging. There is a feature of pull rod design, where you need to be careful of pull rod angle to horizontal plane, if it's too small you induce crazy amount of load in the rod. Even if it isn't, it can get more load than a push rod experiences in most cases. Other than that, both concepts have their well-known operation and packaging differences and details and the choice between the two does not necesarily influence any aspect of vehicle dynamics, if you've designed them both properly and taking into account all details. Also, pull rod sits lower in the tub, so it lowers CoG a tiny bit

The pull rod is also typically lighter than a pushrod because a rod under compression must also withstand the buckling phenomena which doesn't exist with a pull rod.

[Vanja #66]

It's catch 22. This is also why Ferrari has no tire wear this season.

It's just overcorrection-24

Sorry, forgot to reply earlier. No, honestly, I don't think it's any kind of catch. Track position is king and it was so in 2nd half of 23 and I can't imagine a reasonable explanation to forgo Q performance
in exchange for somewhat better deg performance. My guess is losing Q performance wasn't intended or at least they didn't anticipate such a big loss compared to SF23, ie overcorrection

The pull rod is also typically lighter than a pushrod because a rod under compression must also withstand the buckling phenomena which doesn't exist with a pull rod.

Indeed, as far as I know... Though it can depend on this pull rod angle, if you are forced to keep it more horizontal (for some reason) loads can get astronomical

[Xyz22]

Go easy on me, it’s took a lot of ‘courage’ for me to post this

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alons ... /10657674/

Alonso reckons Ferrari had the ‘fastest car all weekend’ in Singapore

McL was quicker.

[f1316]

Go easy on me, it’s took a lot of ‘courage’ for me to post this

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alons ... /10657674/

Alonso reckons Ferrari had the ‘fastest car all weekend’ in Singapore

No need to feel nervous! Thank you for posting and contributing!

Imho this is a bit of Alonso showing how well he did by overemphasising the strength of the car just in front, mixed with the fact that Ferrari were genuinely very strong. I do think McLaren - Norris in particular - were a little stronger though.

[DoctorRadio]

Go easy on me, it’s took a lot of ‘courage’ for me to post this

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alons ... /10657674/

Alonso reckons Ferrari had the ‘fastest car all weekend’ in Singapore

See, you are making progress

[CjC]

Go easy on me, it’s took a lot of ‘courage’ for me to post this

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alons ... /10657674/

Alonso reckons Ferrari had the ‘fastest car all weekend’ in Singapore

See, you are making progress

I thought about replying to you with a surly response in the Mclaren thread but I saw Mr Alonso had given me an opportunity to make light hearted of the situation

[DoctorRadio]

Go easy on me, it’s took a lot of ‘courage’ for me to post this

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alons ... /10657674/

Alonso reckons Ferrari had the ‘fastest car all weekend’ in Singapore

See, you are making progress

I thought about replying to you with a surly response in the Mclaren thread but I saw Mr Alonso had given me an opportunity to make light hearted of the situation

Why surly?
This is F1 guys, don’t take it too seriously.

[CjC]

Go easy on me, it’s took a lot of ‘courage’ for me to post this

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alons ... /10657674/

Alonso reckons Ferrari had the ‘fastest car all weekend’ in Singapore

No need to feel nervous! Thank you for posting and contributing!

Imho this is a bit of Alonso showing how well he did by overemphasising the strength of the car just in front, mixed with the fact that Ferrari were genuinely very strong. I do think McLaren - Norris in particular - were a little stronger though.

I appreciate the welcome but my reffering to needing ‘courage’ was a naughty response to something DoctorRadio said in the Mclaren thread yesterday
Im a 12 year veteran really

Anyway, yes I too believe it was just Alonso massaging his ego after a fairly decent drive

[CjC]

See, you are making progress

I thought about replying to you with a surly response in the Mclaren thread but I saw Mr Alonso had given me an opportunity to make light hearted of the situation

Why surly?
This is F1 guys, don’t take it too seriously.

To be honest I thought your ‘courage’ comment was a tad patronising but as I generally can’t be bothered with the bickering I just left it. I’d rather have some light hearted humour once the dust had settled

[Vinlarr89]

It's catch 22. This is also why Ferrari has no tire wear this season.

It's just overcorrection-24

Sorry, forgot to reply earlier. No, honestly, I don't think it's any kind of catch. Track position is king and it was so in 2nd half of 23 and I can't imagine a reasonable explanation to forgo Q performance
in exchange for somewhat better deg performance. My guess is losing Q performance wasn't intended or at least they didn't anticipate such a big loss compared to SF23, ie overcorrection

The pull rod is also typically lighter than a pushrod because a rod under compression must also withstand the buckling phenomena which doesn't exist with a pull rod.

Indeed, as far as I know... Though it can depend on this pull rod angle, if you are forced to keep it more horizontal (for some reason) loads can get astronomical

Sorry but it is catch 22. Last year we all complained about the tyre deg situation and the complete lack of race pace as a result of this.
We were getting poles but couldn’t hold them because the tyres would go away so quick.
There’s a balance, and MCL has it right in the sweet spot. Thats clear, and that’s ok. I don’t think Ferrari are too far away if I’m honest.