2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Sevach]

I don't think the expectation should ever be "McLaren will mess up and Ferrari will snatch the win." After the summer break, McLaren came back stronger, both on the team and drivers side. They didn't spend that time slacking and I doubt they'll be lazy during this break either. And McLaren are the only team to not bring "failed upgrades"; I think we can assume they have more resources remaining because of it.

If Leclerc can get one more win this year I'd be surprised. Pleasantly so, but still surprised, because it'd take either a mistake from McLaren or a leap in strength from Ferrari. Not only that, but this is assuming Red Bull and Mercedes are still nowhere, which is a lot to ask for...

At least Serra arrives in 5 days. After what feels like a very long wait!

Vegas is a return to the low downforce package where Mclaren was vulnerable to Ferrari.
And their low downforce wing should work less efficiently now.

Other than that, what kind of upgrades can Ferrari bring? A RW that has less side spill and makes the car more efficient? There's maybe .1, being generous .15 there.

Other than Vegas, COTA sometimes throws curve balls due to how bumpy it is, cars will be running outside their optimum ride heights and floors(like in the article i just quoted) will be going haywire with so much hitting the ground.

Mexico and it's rarefied air also brings some unexpected results and Brazil, also rarefied air, sometimes bumpy and unpredictable weather.

Losail and Abu Dhabi would be incredible if Ferrari is able to compete, it hasn't been the teams strong suit at all.

[Vanja #66]

AD is always good for Ferrari, it's a mixed track but a lot of traction zones. Losail is the only questionable track for them really and it will be a good test of the car compared to last season. They should be able to target podium on every race, realistically, unless RB somehow makes a jump of 2-3 tenths with Austin update. Mercedes will remain a problem in Q3, but hopefully they will finally focus a bit on tyre setup for Q3 in these final 6 weekends

[Seanspeed]

COTA sometimes throws curve balls due to how bumpy it is, cars will be running outside their optimum ride heights and floors(like in the article i just quoted) will be going haywire with so much hitting the ground.

This is why I think Austin is gonna be the real barometer of the newer updates. We've been on a string of tracks that would generally be considered favorable for Ferrari just on inherent characteristics, but Austin will be quite different. S1 and S3 are very much the kind of areas that I think most expect Mclaren will be able to exercise their advantages in. If Ferrari can manage to be closer here, things will be positive.

But if not, then I'd say the updates didn't really propel us forward and it was just the track characteristics making us look better.

[AR3-GP]

COTA sometimes throws curve balls due to how bumpy it is, cars will be running outside their optimum ride heights and floors(like in the article i just quoted) will be going haywire with so much hitting the ground.

This is why I think Austin is gonna be the real barometer of the newer updates. We've been on a string of tracks that would generally be considered favorable for Ferrari just on inherent characteristics, but Austin will be quite different. S1 and S3 are very much the kind of areas that I think most expect Mclaren will be able to exercise their advantages in. If Ferrari can manage to be closer here, things will be positive.

But if not, then I'd say the updates didn't really propel us forward and it was just the track characteristics making us look better.

Ferrari has never had a problem with a bumpy circuit on its own. They've always had a good mechanical compliance. It is the higher speed corners for which questions will be answered.

It's a sprint weekend so there is already an excuse for the teams.

[bananapeel23]

COTA sometimes throws curve balls due to how bumpy it is, cars will be running outside their optimum ride heights and floors(like in the article i just quoted) will be going haywire with so much hitting the ground.

This is why I think Austin is gonna be the real barometer of the newer updates. We've been on a string of tracks that would generally be considered favorable for Ferrari just on inherent characteristics, but Austin will be quite different. S1 and S3 are very much the kind of areas that I think most expect Mclaren will be able to exercise their advantages in. If Ferrari can manage to be closer here, things will be positive.

But if not, then I'd say the updates didn't really propel us forward and it was just the track characteristics making us look better.

You're right that the most recent tracks are broadly considered Ferrari strongpoints, but they're also 3 very different tracks that have tested the car in most corner types. Monza is very different from Baku which is quite different from Singapore.

These 3 tracks taken as a whole should give a good idea of whether the upgrades worked, but maybe not how much performance they really brought, even if it's clearly a fair bit.

[Henri]

shows leclerc has got closer to max than norris this season.. if ferrari had the same pace has the mcl38.. we.d be having a championship fight... the sf25 needs to be a rocketship

[hollus]

To th emakers of the last 3 posts:

A) This in not Ferrari, you are mostly talking Norris and papaya. Off topic.

B) This is not F1driver-yin-yang.com. Don't make it so.

[Vanja #66]

the sf25 needs to be a rocketship

Given how this season has developed for Red Bull and how their advantage disappeared since Miami, there won't be any excuses if SF25 isn't a contender for the win on any track from first to last race. People quickly forgot how well off pace SF23 was on many tracks and how many fundamental issues it turned out to have. All of them were corrected with SF24 and only tyre warm up and deg was over-corrected, turning it into a fundamental flaw unfortunately.

Another important thing for next year will be to further tighten up every detail of on-track operations and keep improving them. There were a lot of small issues that had significant consequences this year and next year the field will probably be even more competitive, so I have no doubt Vasseur will keep everyone on their feet and pushing to further improve themselves.

[Henri]

the sf25 needs to be a rocketship

Given how this season has developed for Red Bull and how their advantage disappeared since Miami, there won't be any excuses if SF25 isn't a contender for the win on any track from first to last race. People quickly forgot how well off pace SF23 was on many tracks and how many fundamental issues it turned out to have. All of them were corrected with SF24 and only tyre warm up and deg was over-corrected, turning it into a fundamental flaw unfortunately.

Another important thing for next year will be to further tighten up every detail of on-track operations and keep improving them. There were a lot of small issues that had significant consequences this year and next year the field will probably be even more competitive, so I have no doubt Vasseur will keep everyone on their feet and pushing to further improve themselves.

They need to replicate the early season f1 75 before the technical directive.. that car was similar to the mcl38 in ways

[f1316]

the sf25 needs to be a rocketship

Given how this season has developed for Red Bull and how their advantage disappeared since Miami, there won't be any excuses if SF25 isn't a contender for the win on any track from first to last race. People quickly forgot how well off pace SF23 was on many tracks and how many fundamental issues it turned out to have. All of them were corrected with SF24 and only tyre warm up and deg was over-corrected, turning it into a fundamental flaw unfortunately.

Another important thing for next year will be to further tighten up every detail of on-track operations and keep improving them. There were a lot of small issues that had significant consequences this year and next year the field will probably be even more competitive, so I have no doubt Vasseur will keep everyone on their feet and pushing to further improve themselves.

They need to replicate the early season f1 75 before the technical directive.. that car was similar to the mcl38 in ways

Maybe but it’s all relative and in reality the f175 was slow in comparison to where the cars are now. That car was really strong at the time, relative to competition and now the game has moved on to the point where pretty much every team is finding it hard to bring upgrades. I’ll be super interested to see if McLaren can make a further step or if they too struggle to find further returns (as Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes all have) - I still wonder if their Miami upgrade bringing more than expected means there’s an element of luck mixed in.

Speaking of upgrades: the Race had a quote from Vasseur mentioning a @small upgrade” for the “next race”, which I presume to be Austin. Any idea what that might be? They speculated that there are some reasons to expect it to be more than small - I wonder if it’s essentially the same front wing only more flexible, meaning it will appear small but practice may have a big effect.

[Vanja #66]

Speaking of upgrades: the Race had a quote from Vasseur mentioning a @small upgrade” for the “next race”, which I presume to be Austin. Any idea what that might be? They speculated that there are some reasons to expect it to be more than small - I wonder if it’s essentially the same front wing only more flexible, meaning it will appear small but practice may have a big effect.

If there's a Singapore wing with more flexing incoming, it probably won't be listed as new part and it makes little sense to announce it as such. The only thing that can be small but meaningful would be a new diffuser, which could potentially only differ at the rear of the keel with a modified and improved geometry. It would also be the only thing that makes sense in my view, front wing was just changed, bodywork needs no changing (it's been almost the same since Barcelona), front of the floor would be too much work at the moment, floor edge as well, rear and beam wings were all introduced already.

[Henri]

https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1840049867986452893 austin upgrades will important for all teams to catch up to McLaren.. McLaren is 250 to 300 tenths faster than the other big 4

[Luscion]

The wing was not, of course, created solely and exclusively to flex more. An issue, that of flexing, which has resurfaced after the recent vicissitudes revolving around McLaren's wings. As previously reported, some work on composite materials to improve flexing has been done, but the priorities on the SF-24 were to give more front-end to the red car. A strong signal in this regard was given by the SF-24's behavior in Holland, which prompted Tondi's aerodynamicists to anticipate the new specification before Austin. A further update will be given to the front wing to adapt it to low load tracks, implementing the reduced chord flap for the Las Vegas track.

The new front wing anticipated some aerodynamic philosophies of the 2025 car: wind tunnel totally dedicated to the 677 model.
The new wing brought by Ferrari to Singapore was deliberated at the end of July, before it was closed for wind tunnel modernization work. The same is a version that will in fact be shifted directly by aerodynamic philosophy to the 2025 car. “We are already working on the 2025 car, but we will do our best to bring something to the SF-24.” Ferrari, with the reopening of the tunnel after the upgrade work, is devoting full-fledged aerodynamic work to next year's car, with the tunnel being used only marginally on the SF-24, and only in case it is decided to put some visualized component in the car with interesting results obtained from CFD.

https://formu1a.uno/it/ferrari-2025-lal ... o-del-677/

[Seanspeed]

COTA sometimes throws curve balls due to how bumpy it is, cars will be running outside their optimum ride heights and floors(like in the article i just quoted) will be going haywire with so much hitting the ground.

This is why I think Austin is gonna be the real barometer of the newer updates. We've been on a string of tracks that would generally be considered favorable for Ferrari just on inherent characteristics, but Austin will be quite different. S1 and S3 are very much the kind of areas that I think most expect Mclaren will be able to exercise their advantages in. If Ferrari can manage to be closer here, things will be positive.

But if not, then I'd say the updates didn't really propel us forward and it was just the track characteristics making us look better.

Ferrari has never had a problem with a bumpy circuit on its own. They've always had a good mechanical compliance. It is the higher speed corners for which questions will be answered.

It's a sprint weekend so there is already an excuse for the teams.

I mean, you're just stating the same thing as me in different words.

Except I dont think it's just higher speed corners that will tell everything - Ferrari tends to 'slow down' versus Mclaren in particular as soon as there's a bunch of corners that are slower, but still loaded enough that aerodynamics make a difference. This is precisely the area that transformed the Mclaren from chasing pack car to the lead. Its loaded turn-in just became immense.

Hence all the focus on front wings. And COTA has a number of corners like this, so I think it'll doubly be useful to tell how successful recent updates have been, both floor updates but also the new front wing.

[AR3-GP]

This is why I think Austin is gonna be the real barometer of the newer updates. We've been on a string of tracks that would generally be considered favorable for Ferrari just on inherent characteristics, but Austin will be quite different. S1 and S3 are very much the kind of areas that I think most expect Mclaren will be able to exercise their advantages in. If Ferrari can manage to be closer here, things will be positive.

But if not, then I'd say the updates didn't really propel us forward and it was just the track characteristics making us look better.

Ferrari has never had a problem with a bumpy circuit on its own. They've always had a good mechanical compliance. It is the higher speed corners for which questions will be answered.

It's a sprint weekend so there is already an excuse for the teams.

I mean, you're just stating the same thing as me in different words.

Except I dont think it's just higher speed corners that will tell everything - Ferrari tends to 'slow down' versus Mclaren in particular as soon as there's a bunch of corners that are slower, but still loaded enough that aerodynamics make a difference. This is precisely the area that transformed the Mclaren from chasing pack car to the lead. Its loaded turn-in just became immense.

Hence all the focus on front wings. And COTA has a number of corners like this, so I think it'll doubly be useful to tell how successful recent updates have been, both floor updates but also the new front wing.

I agree that we are saying the same thing. Upon further review, I believe I intended to quote Sevach directly.