Did Bernie lie?

[GitanesBlondes]

Todt though seems to know better given how he has been dragging the Concorde Agreement discussions out for quite some time. Perhaps he is the only one who really sees Bernie for what he is?

You can bet he does. Todt is the only figure in the paddock who has been immune to the kind of Ecclestone bribery that goes on for more than three decades now. At least since he is president of the FiA. It is less known that Ecclestone offered the FiA all the money and more if Todt would have left him the media accreditation in F1. It has recently been confirmed that this right will remain with the FiA according to the MoU they just signed. With the rights to fire every journalist willy nilly out of the paddock Ecclestone's dictatorial powers would have increased significantly. No more critical voices about F1 affairs, rule making or commercial deals. A truly horrible thought.

I was under the impression that Ecclestone did control the media credentials for F1 now?

To be fair, it seems there is very little criticism leveled towards F1 these days...at least from higher profile media figures.

[WhiteBlue]

Todt though seems to know better given how he has been dragging the Concorde Agreement discussions out for quite some time. Perhaps he is the only one who really sees Bernie for what he is?

You can bet he does. Todt is the only figure in the paddock who has been immune to the kind of Ecclestone bribery that goes on for more than three decades now. At least since he is president of the FiA. It is less known that Ecclestone offered the FiA all the money and more if Todt would have left him the media accreditation in F1. It has recently been confirmed that this right will remain with the FiA according to the MoU they just signed. With the rights to fire every journalist willy nilly out of the paddock Ecclestone's dictatorial powers would have increased significantly. No more critical voices about F1 affairs, rule making or commercial deals. A truly horrible thought.

I was under the impression that Ecclestone did control the media credentials for F1 now?

To be fair, it seems there is very little criticism leveled towards F1 these days...at least from higher profile media figures.

No, you have to apply to the FiA to get a media pass for F1, which is good. There is already very little independent media in the paddock that would dare to criticize the supremo. I know only a hand full of F1 journalists who dare to write about the things that are wrong in Ecclestone's empire.

[marcush.]

I´m not 100% familiar with the exact wording of Dai compliance rules but to even be associated with people who are accused of being corrupt is already a no go .
I ´d think this is the position we find both F1 team and Powertrain department.Mind you the powertrain is mentioned always in the context of formula 1 ..no matter if the money powertrain receives is clean or not.

[WhiteBlue]

but to even be associated with people who are accused of being corrupt is already a no go .

Being associated and doing business is something different. To boycot FOM now would be against all legal principles that have applied for 2000 years. In dubio pro reo. CVC would have damage litigation against Mercedes if they would pull out now and Ecclestone later is not guilty.

As I said the situation would be different if DaimlerBenz would employ Bernie as CVC does. Then they could be expected to suspend him for the duration of the procedure. They could not even fire him during that time. The fact that CVC does not do that is a bad sign for them. If Ecclestone gets convicted they will be exposed to a shitestorm.

The FiA also exposes itself to criticism. They should be putting more public pressure on CVC to suspend Ecclestone.

[Richard]

It all depends on the contracts. If a firm has strict compliance rules then one would expect them to be echoed in their contracts. Otherwise there's an obvious loophole that a firm ignores someone breaking the rules on their behalf.

If a party to the contract admits to payments that contravene those compliance rules then the contract could be cancelled. All that is independent of any criminal action.

However, the CVC payments took place before Merc joined F1 and prior to the latest EU inspired anti-corruption regulations. So I doubt it falls under the current contracts. So I expect criminal conviction would be needed before anyone can start talking about kicking Bernie out.

[Richard]

Todt though seems to know better given how he has been dragging the Concorde Agreement discussions out for quite some time. Perhaps he is the only one who really sees Bernie for what he is?

I suspect most people in F1 see Bernie for what he is, but only Todt is sufficiently independent to do what he wants. The others have their hands tied in various ways through contracts, financial dependency, patronage or mutual interests. Adam Parr's exit from F1 is great example of that.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingne ... 02744.html

So long as Bernie is able to run the business, then he is absolutely the right guy to be running it. It’s as simple as that. And he has the full backing of the shareholders of Formula One.... Bernie is a remarkable guy, and I doubt he has given much thought to succession to be honest with you because he is focused on the here and now, which is where the issues tend to be. I hope he goes on for a long time to come.

I have no idea how you can make such a statement unless you are very much dependent of the guy who is indicted. Horner may have been allied with Ecclestone for too long and could have fears to loose his influence.

[Hail22]

Give it time WB...however I think Mr. E may be replaced in the form of Peter Brabeck-Lethmathe...he's currently the Chairman of Formula 1 and will sooner or later take the reins off of Bernie.

Question is...will he be better or worse for Formula 1's future?

[Richard]

I have no idea how you can make such a statement...

What else could he say? He's doing exactly what you said a few posts above. Anything else would be "against all legal principles that have applied for 2000 years. In dubio pro reo." - Innocent until proven guilty in simple terms.

What Horner actually said in relation to the case is "“It’s obviously very difficult for us to judge the issues (Ecclestone) is currently dealing with". I read that as saying "No comment" in relation to the case.

Also notice the caveat "so long as Bernie is able to....."

The rest of his comments relate to Bernie's abilities. I don't think there is any doubt about his abilities to run the business, even his enemies can't deny he is supremely talented at what he does.

The interview is pretty bland to be honest. Horner says that Bernie's a clever chap and declines to comment on the court case.

[WhiteBlue]

I respectfully disagree esteemed moderator. Horner says that Bernie should go on as long as he is capable of doing it. That it disregarding the perspective or probability that he will be found guilty. In such a case the statement should be conditional to the outcome of the trial. As it reads now one gets the impression that Horner wants Ecclestone to carry on regardless of the verdict to his grave as Ecclestone has often announced himself as his intention. What would happen if Bernie is sentenced to jail for some years on probation? He would surely carry on doing what he does, if they let him. And Horner is giving the impression that he would support such an outcome. I may be wrong here because I may be missing the finer nuances, but that was my concern when I read it.

[GitanesBlondes]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingne ... 02744.html

So long as Bernie is able to run the business, then he is absolutely the right guy to be running it. It’s as simple as that. And he has the full backing of the shareholders of Formula One.... Bernie is a remarkable guy, and I doubt he has given much thought to succession to be honest with you because he is focused on the here and now, which is where the issues tend to be. I hope he goes on for a long time to come.

I have no idea how you can make such a statement unless you are very much dependent of the guy who is indicted. Horner may have been allied with Ecclestone for too long and could have fears to loose his influence.

The Horner quote is rather eyebrow-raising. Considering he has been screwing F1 for a long time to line his own pockets, I find it to be surreal that the team principals still think as highly as they do of him. If this quote were from Flavio Briatore, I'd understand it more. But Horner seems to be a smart guy, yet that just seems like a statement that would come from less intelligent individuals. Of course he may just be making a play to appeal to Bernie as much as he can.

In more recent memory, what has Bernie done that has been so good for the sport as a whole, and has it all really been worth it? I posed this question to a few recently, and the only real examples anyone seems to be capable of citing date back to around 1981.

[Richard]

A useful test is to consider Horner's other options. He's not going to say Benie should be sacked is he? Even more pragmatically, if he was going to stick the knife into Bernie do you think he'd do it via the press? Surely that sort of message is delivered behind closed doors? Even if he did choose a public stabbing, would he choose the Irish Independent ?

He did exactly what we'd expect for a PR puff piece in an unimportant (in F1 terms) paper in a country with no significant F1 involvement. He gave a bland interview to say Bernie's clever, no comment on the case. He probably promoted the team but the journalist chose to ignore all that in favour of a "scoop" akin to bears pooping in the woods.

[WhiteBlue]

A useful test is to consider Horner's other options. He's not going to say Benie's should be sacked is he? Even more pragmatically, if he was going to stick the knife into Bernie do you think he'd do it via the press? ..

He had the option not to say "I hope he goes on for a long time to come". That clearly implies a partisan view of the legal battle ahead.

[TzeiTzei]

You people are making way too many conclusions from a single quote. With the exception of maybe John Booth and Bob Fernley, I wouldnt expect any other kind of answer to that question from any team principal.

[marcush.]

As I understand Daimlers Compliance and rules of conduct do not make a difference between acused ,prosecuted or convicted .

http://www.daimler.com/Projects/c2c/cha ... 315_dt.pdf

http://www.daimler.com/Projects/c2c/cha ... 315_en.pdf

I´d say no ways it is possible to let Ecclestone carry on under these set of rules.

you may read page 9


or page 7:
"ethical impeccable conduct" "we are as well responsible for the conduct of our business partners" no leeway for interpretation there .Ecclestone is toast or Daimler is gone is the bottom line as predicted already some time ago Horners views are irrelevant ,formula 1 is a global business and not an island ...just remember how Ecclestone tries to save his neck with presents and making good friends ...this is explicititly going against Daimlers rule of conduct.