oh dear - Romain

[iotar__]

Another mindless bandwagon from hysterical fans and dishonest "journalists". BTW, what happened to constant tyres and lottery whinging? Surprisingly once tools like Sky commentators stopped pushing the agenda, tyre subject ceased in worthless general public's opinion. But it's still the same as ever this season. How can Sauber be quicker than McLaren/Ferrari?! How can Maldonado out-qualify Vettel?! Must be tyres and lottery, no? Now it's about Grosjean.

What Grosjean is doing this season is not even close to Hamilton's level of incompetence in 2011 (earlier seasons too) or Vettel's in 2009-2010. First one kept on crashing or colliding, often twice a race (Monaco, Canada), second in addition to crashes made every mistake in the book. And yet compared to what's happening now the reaction was relatively tame. Now that Ecclestone is chiming in, gee I wonder why... For some drivers it's the agenda of shoving their supposed greatness down everyone's throats no matter what, for others the opposite. Regular F1 politics.

Partly Lotus f...d it up by being too nice, Vettel and Hamitlon showed how you handle penalties and mistakes. Lie, lie, lie (Turkey), blame everyone around, the team always should take a blame first (Hamilton), failing that accuse of racism, idiotic conspiracies (Red Bull). Put pressure on stewards, this way you will get away with murder, like Vettel in Suzuka. Of course driving for a big team takes care of 99% of that. So for example, what was worse: Grosjean Suzuka or Hamilton 2010 Monza?

[Nando]

What Grosjean is doing this season is not even close to Hamilton's level of incompetence in 2011 (earlier seasons too) or Vettel's in 2009-2010.

Maybe in some parallel universe yes.

Grosjean is winning the incompetence race by light years. 15 races. Half of those he´s ended on the first lap in the first few corners.

[iotar__]

What Grosjean is doing this season is not even close to Hamilton's level of incompetence in 2011 (earlier seasons too) or Vettel's in 2009-2010.

Maybe in some parallel universe yes.

Grosjean is winning the incompetence race by light years. 15 races. Half of those he´s ended on the first lap in the first few corners.

Very selective quoting, and exactly what I would call mindless counting, without considering circumstances. I can do that, we don't care whose fault it was, just numbers right? Let's see, Hamilton in 2011, FIFTH SEASON IN F1. Top 2-3 car.
- Canada - Webber, collision, Button crash = 2
- Malaysia - collision and penalty = 1
- Monaco - Massa collision penalty, Maldonado = 2 penalties in one race
- Spa - Kobayashi - crash = 1
- Silverstone - another close one with Massa
- another collision with Massa later in the season, I don't remember this time penalty to Massa (just because)

I'm saying it's a matter of perspective and blowing things out of proportions. It's funny how no one is discussing to this extend how:
- Alonso was again overaggressive, this time did not get away with it, as many times this season (Valencia!), and got himself in a collision
- how Raikkonen reacted rather poorly to being pushed wide, lost part of front wing, was very lucky to continue and caused Alonso's puncture
- or how future McLaren superstar driver Perez made another, consecutive comedic mistake (one of countless this season) and binned it. Makes you wonder what Ecclestone has to say about it?

All this is rather normal but if it was RG in their place I bet it would look rather different, just because he's on the agenda now.

[Nando]

You can´t blow things out of proportion, those are the facts.

they were so severe and so frequent he even got a race ban. You need to do some crazy stuff you get a race ban these days.
Yes Hamilton in 2011 was the worst Hamilton we have seen but at least his 5 other seasons weigh that up by some extent.

All of Grosjean´s F1 career has been filled with incidents. That´s just the facts.

I think everyone wants to see him succeed, we know he´s as quick as they come but to sit and defend him is not the right way to go.
He will never learn if people just tell him "well...it´s alright mate" No you say "wtf are you doing, this is probably your only chance in F1, how about you turn it down a notch...see if that helps."

One person that has actually showed progress in this area is Maldonado. Had he continued with his antics he most likely would have gotten a race ban now.

But look at Singapore, it could have ended badly yet he took it nice and calm, told Vettel and Button that they can have it, it´s fine i can work from here.

Had Grosjean been in that position it most likely would have ended quite badly. 50/50 shot i would say.

[zonk]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/181r0f0 ... iginal.jpg

[Itchy_digits]

I can definitely see where peoiple are coming from with the comparisons to Hamilton's antics last year and Vettel's in the two previous. However you have to factor in the potential danger level for the drivers. Most of Grojeans incidents have been first lap jobs where the pack is still very bunched. To me these type of incidents pose a much higher potential for injury than one on one collisions later in the race with cars spread out.

I was at my parents place for Spa and said to them to watch out for Grosjean and Maldonado in the first few laps because of their previous. Neither of them racing fans were both shocked when post race I played them video of Monaco (amongst others) and amazed how at that level these errors were being made.

[Websta]

What are you guys talking about? Everyone lambasted Hamilton last year with all his antics - there was just no talk about him being demoted from F1 as he is an F1 champion and probably one of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport. That doesn't mean that there is a double standard - if Grosjean had Hamilton or Alonso's record, there wouldn't be as much harsh criticism. Then again, Hamilton or Alonso wouldn't make such rookie mistakes so consistently and regularly (Ham 2011 wasn't really in the same ball park).

I think this thread has served its purpose anyway

[Mika1]

[dren]

Hamilton and Vettel at least were having issues racing, like Maldonado this year. They weren't running into people time after time at the start. Grosjean has done so in the last 3 years. It was nice of Lotus to give him another go at it, but now it's time to put someone else in the car.

[peanutaxis]

I think Grosjean suffers from panic at the beginning of the race. The adrenaline and heart rate make you not think straight, and do more desperate things. He merely needs to apply some sports psychology. But it's F1, I'm sure they know and use this already.