Fastest F1 driver of all time?

[Nando]

This looks like an Senna fanboy's unsubstantiated article.

I think anyone who says 1998 was Schumacher's fault can not be trusted about anything in F1. It was Coulthard's fault at 1998 which he later admitted in an interview he would never do such a thing with his present experience:
"The reality is, I lifted to let him past me but I did it in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now. In 1998 I didn't have the experience and knowledge - and I'd never had anyone run into the back of me."

On a curved section with low visibility and heavy rain he slowed on the racing line. Forget about F1 circuit that will cause an accident on a regular road.

No the list of races is not comprehensive. I just listed the ones I remembered, I am sure there will be few more. If you remember any more wet races Hamilton had won let me know. Otherwise if there are more races which another driver won, the percentage will go down more...

LOL.

There´s a link there, having every rain race since the start. If you think it´s wrong for Hamilton but everyone else is correct then please by all means, compile a list and we see what the real number is.

Could it be that you are so pro-schumi that you first react on the pro-senna post and the fact that Hamilton is so close to Schumacher which now has officially retired at the end of the season?

It just seems like it.

Just count SPA as a win when you do, we all know he really won that one.

[Websta]

At times I have been impressed by Senna, especially by his races in the wet, as well has by his race craft in general. Schumacher has also shown great speed at times, but it came too inconsistently. Quite a few of his victories were due more to disadvantaged team mates or perfect conditions than pure pace, and he wasn't able to capitalise on other opportunities that presented themselves. I wouldn't rate either of them particularly highly - I feel that Senna has generally been thoroughly outclassed by Maldonado this season, and Schumacher was not really able to get the better of Montoya at Williams and had very little success at Toyota.

[marcush.]

At times I have been impressed by Senna, especially by his races in the wet, as well has by his race craft in general. Schumacher has also shown great speed at times, but it came too inconsistently. Quite a few of his victories were due more to disadvantaged team mates or perfect conditions than pure pace, and he wasn't able to capitalise on other opportunities that presented themselves. I wouldn't rate either of them particularly highly - I feel that Senna has generally been thoroughly outclassed by Maldonado this season, and Schumacher was not really able to get the better of Montoya at Williams and had very little success at Toyota.

Priceless!

would all Schumacher combined qualify for greatest driver of all time or would this drag down Michaels average?
Hill ,Fittipaldi,Piquet and even better rosberg ....winkelhock ...

[snoop1050]

Annoyed at yet another Schumi fanboy claiming he is the undisputed F1 rain master of all time, I did a little stat calculation tonight...

its like comparing apes with oranges.

senna more often than not made sure he had the fastest car even if it meant team hopping.
hes obviously going to have better % of statistics because of that.

% of sennas career spent in a top car compared to everyone else? if he didnt die we would more than likely have seen him go the way of hamilton

[marcush.]

everyone is entitled to his own opinion .
Belittleing of drivers who achieved tremendous results in their careers and certainly more thasn those who are judging upon them is a least a bit questionable.
There is no question some of the real speed kings did never bag the titles to put justice the talent they had .To question Senna or Schumachers talents is just silly banter -sure you can´t win a race without a car with sufficient capability .simple as that .But that´s covering a single win and in special circumstances even a championship win.
But one has to acknowledge that none of the multiple WDC winners ever had had to lift himself considerably over the potential of his car .

Lauda had exquisite machinery at his disposal ,so had Prost ,Senna,Schumacher and Stewart,Clark and Fangio.

Of all those the single driver who did not join an already top team but was a member of those lifting the team to success
has to be Schumacher joining first Benneton -good for points when he joined but no ways championship contenders and later Ferrari who were challenging for Podiums and one win per year but certainly were not championship material.

[LionKing]

This looks like an Senna fanboy's unsubstantiated article.

I think anyone who says 1998 was Schumacher's fault can not be trusted about anything in F1. It was Coulthard's fault at 1998 which he later admitted in an interview he would never do such a thing with his present experience:
"The reality is, I lifted to let him past me but I did it in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now. In 1998 I didn't have the experience and knowledge - and I'd never had anyone run into the back of me."

On a curved section with low visibility and heavy rain he slowed on the racing line. Forget about F1 circuit that will cause an accident on a regular road.

No the list of races is not comprehensive. I just listed the ones I remembered, I am sure there will be few more. If you remember any more wet races Hamilton had won let me know. Otherwise if there are more races which another driver won, the percentage will go down more...

LOL.

There´s a link there, having every rain race since the start. If you think it´s wrong for Hamilton but everyone else is correct then please by all means, compile a list and we see what the real number is.

Could it be that you are so pro-schumi that you first react on the pro-senna post and the fact that Hamilton is so close to Schumacher which now has officially retired at the end of the season?

It just seems like it.

Just count SPA as a win when you do, we all know he really won that one.

I don't think Hamilton is close to Schumacher at all, no need to worry about that... Just 40% for Hamilton seemed to way too high a figure. Considering that we have 4 wet races Button won in Mclaren to Hamilton's 1 in the same equipment. I also tried to list the wet races I can remember of which confirms my suspicion.

Hamilton got a penalty at Spa. Maybe we should count Massa as the 2008 WDC we all know what Renault did at SIngapore 2008. It doesn't work like that. If we go into individual races and change the results we don't like, we will never reach anywhere. Lewis should have been a bit more patient at that race....

[hyde and zeek]

Juan Manuel Fangio, when you take into account the cars each has had to master, and what the car's ability vs the driver's ability, the old school guys had mega talent and were fearless given the risks they were taking.

[PlatinumZealot]

Those old school guys like Fangio were wealthy, underprivileged and pot bellied. No comparison to drivers like Senna, Jim clark, MSC etc. It's hard to rate Fangio across different generations.

[hyde and zeek]

You may be describing his competition, but those are not adjectives to describe Fangio or how he came up thru the ranks in Argentina. By the time you get to F1 levels, money has been you friend for awhile, then and clearly now.

"Fangio was born in 1911 in the potato-growing town of Balcarce, 180 miles from Buenos Aires, the fourth of six children. It was San Juan's Day, hence his name. His father, Loretto Fangio, an Italian immigrant, painted houses, and in such humble beginnings first stirred the young child's dream to become a footballer. He was called El Chueco, the bandy one, because of his fabulous technique of hooking left-footed shots at goal."

Fangio's roots had more in common with Senna then any of the current crop of privilege drovers.

[PlatinumZealot]

How do you explain the big belly? Imagine all the G-forces on that thing.

[LionKing]

How do you explain the big belly? Imagine all the G-forces on that thing.

The big belly was just moveable aero....

[FoxHound]

Anyone seen this video?

It's been posted on another archaic thread, but kinda goes to show what happens in equal equipment....


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swlgR4BB8ZA[/youtube]

[Nando]

I don't think Hamilton is close to Schumacher at all, no need to worry about that... Just 40% for Hamilton seemed to way too high a figure. Considering that we have 4 wet races Button won in Mclaren to Hamilton's 1 in the same equipment. I also tried to list the wet races I can remember of which confirms my suspicion.

Hamilton got a penalty at Spa. Maybe we should count Massa as the 2008 WDC we all know what Renault did at SIngapore 2008. It doesn't work like that. If we go into individual races and change the results we don't like, we will never reach anywhere. Lewis should have been a bit more patient at that race....

Instead of thinking, you actually have the opportunity to check if any of those facts are true.

And i think we can change the Hamilton result to a win, it´s already been proven afterwards he did actually let off the gas.
That was a Ferrari International Assistance thing where they refused to look at facts and instead because of Kimi wrecking, decided to give Hamilton such a penalty that another Ferrari would take home the win instead.

By all means, if you don´t think his post is correct, please control check it. You have the link.

[LionKing]

I don't think Hamilton is close to Schumacher at all, no need to worry about that... Just 40% for Hamilton seemed to way too high a figure. Considering that we have 4 wet races Button won in Mclaren to Hamilton's 1 in the same equipment. I also tried to list the wet races I can remember of which confirms my suspicion.

Hamilton got a penalty at Spa. Maybe we should count Massa as the 2008 WDC we all know what Renault did at SIngapore 2008. It doesn't work like that. If we go into individual races and change the results we don't like, we will never reach anywhere. Lewis should have been a bit more patient at that race....

Instead of thinking, you actually have the opportunity to check if any of those facts are true.

And i think we can change the Hamilton result to a win, it´s already been proven afterwards he did actually let off the gas.
That was a Ferrari International Assistance thing where they refused to look at facts and instead because of Kimi wrecking, decided to give Hamilton such a penalty that another Ferrari would take home the win instead.

By all means, if you don´t think his post is correct, please control check it. You have the link.

I think I have already done it before:

I listed 4 races won by Hamilton, 11 races won by others. 4/15 = 26.7%. If I have forgotten about more races that Hamilton didn't win. This ratio will decrease further...

Do you see drivers immediately jumping the guy back just after they let him pass because of cutting the chicane etc? Hamilton was impatient and paid the price. This is same as saying we can change Vettel's Germany 2012 result to P2.

The link you have given is just the home page of an F1 related website. The articles read "Korean International Circuit" , "How good is S. Vettel", etc. If you know where list of wet weather races is, let me know...

[FoxHound]

Powerful point Nando.

I think it's telling when fans talk statistics to prove who is the fastest/greatest/biggest appendage as with Schumacher, but also will not entertain stats that prove other points.
I just wonder, in this little brain of mine, how any other decent driver would perform in that Ferrari between 1999-2004.
I wonder this because Barrichello was decent, Irvine was not.

Irvine took Hakkinen to the wire in 99....Because of a certain regen meister's absence.

I don't want to invoke the wrath of the Schumacher lobby, as I hold him in high regard. Exceptionally high.
I would have to say Schumacher is not as good as his stats suggest because he was playing a game biased in his favour.
If he was, I reckon we all would be eulogising about how Schumacher manhandled a Mercedes to victory by now.
But as it turns out, he cannot. So he is Human, and yes, he needs a bloody good car to win.