2017 Singapore Grand Prix - 1st lap crash discussion

[PlatinumZealot]

100% vettel's fault. Vettel was too obsessed with coming out of turn 1 in the lead and not thinking about the championship. The same sort of impulsive behaviour we saw in Bakue and Mexico last year. Fast but immature driver.

Got any clips, pictures or anything to present with such a bold claim? Didn't think so.

Uh. Yes.

But before i even go there, get some DOT4 brake fluid. (you need some strong stuff for this!). Wash vettel's musk from your eyes. Did that? Ok good. Now that you are not legally blinded look carefully:

See the two long black marks running down the track in relation to vettel's car? Vettel drifted a good twenty feet in going across the left most black mark and into the path of Verstappen.

[Shrieker]

What we need is an straight on looking overhead shot (was shown on sky post race) where you can easily see raikkonen turning into verstappen after he's half way trough, and that was what triggered the whole scenario.

On the Kimi Onboard, the gap between kimis front left and the painted line on the edge of the track looked to stay the same throughout all of it. So i don't feel kimi hardly moved right.

You can see he even flicks the wheel just minorily to the right, which is enough to make contact. It's much clearer from the head on shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui_HzXwnpnw

If anyone Rai should take the most blame. When people say 100% vettel's fault you know they have an agenda or didn't even watch the replays.

Can u do a slow mo (for forum users) ? I hit play/pause really fast right before the moment of contact, and it looks more or less clear to me that Kimi did move to the right before contact happened. But to be perfectly honest with you, Vettel was by far and away the most aggressive party among the ones that got involved.

[NathanOlder]

What we need is an straight on looking overhead shot (was shown on sky post race) where you can easily see raikkonen turning into verstappen after he's half way trough, and that was what triggered the whole scenario.

On the Kimi Onboard, the gap between kimis front left and the painted line on the edge of the track looked to stay the same throughout all of it. So i don't feel kimi hardly moved right.

Well, feelings shouldn't come into things like this dontcha think I had a look at Kimi's onboard multiple times, and while it looks like the gap from his left front to the white line stays the same, the very last moment(s) before the contact his steering wheel starts turning right ever so slightly. Until someone does a slow mo and/or frame by frame dissection, it's hard to say for %100 sure. But atm it looks to as if he started moving to the right before contact occurred.

Yeah i see that, so he moved a matter of inches ? While the other red car was veering dramatically to his left. I was just saying to Juzh that Kimi moved minimally, seb moved drastically. Max sat in the middle.

Seb 90%
Kimi 7%
Max 3% ( for not braking early enough lol)

[Juzh]

On the Kimi Onboard, the gap between kimis front left and the painted line on the edge of the track looked to stay the same throughout all of it. So i don't feel kimi hardly moved right.

You can see he even flicks the wheel just minorily to the right, which is enough to make contact. It's much clearer from the head on shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui_HzXwnpnw

If anyone Rai should take the most blame. When people say 100% vettel's fault you know they have an agenda or didn't even watch the replays.

Can u do a slow mo (for forum users) ? I hit play/pause really fast right before the moment of contact, and it looks more or less clear to me that Kimi did move to the right before contact happened.

You can slowdown youtube clips on the youtube in the clip options.

[Juzh]

On the Kimi Onboard, the gap between kimis front left and the painted line on the edge of the track looked to stay the same throughout all of it. So i don't feel kimi hardly moved right.

Well, feelings shouldn't come into things like this dontcha think I had a look at Kimi's onboard multiple times, and while it looks like the gap from his left front to the white line stays the same, the very last moment(s) before the contact his steering wheel starts turning right ever so slightly. Until someone does a slow mo and/or frame by frame dissection, it's hard to say for %100 sure. But atm it looks to as if he started moving to the right before contact occurred.

Yeah i see that, so he moved a matter of inches ? While the other red car was veering dramatically to his left. I was just saying to Juzh that Kimi moved minimally, seb moved drastically. Max sat in the middle.

Seb 90%
Kimi 7%
Max 3% ( for not braking early enough lol)

More like 50/50 vettel rai. I don't think verstappen is at fault.

[NathanOlder]

Well, feelings shouldn't come into things like this dontcha think I had a look at Kimi's onboard multiple times, and while it looks like the gap from his left front to the white line stays the same, the very last moment(s) before the contact his steering wheel starts turning right ever so slightly. Until someone does a slow mo and/or frame by frame dissection, it's hard to say for %100 sure. But atm it looks to as if he started moving to the right before contact occurred.

Yeah i see that, so he moved a matter of inches ? While the other red car was veering dramatically to his left. I was just saying to Juzh that Kimi moved minimally, seb moved drastically. Max sat in the middle.

Seb 90%
Kimi 7%
Max 3% ( for not braking early enough lol)

More like 50/50 vettel rai. I don't think verstappen is at fault.

How the hell can you see this as 50-50!!!

Open your eyes man. And dont put brake fluid in them as someone else said. It wont help your vision

[ClarkBT11]

What we need is an straight on looking overhead shot (was shown on sky post race) where you can easily see raikkonen turning into verstappen after he's half way trough, and that was what triggered the whole scenario.

yeah, watched that on youtube. RAI steers into VES and makes contact with VES and then VET hit by VES and collected by RAI.

But still VET played a big role in this, and without the apparent chop he might have come out of it unscathed...
or the whole thing might not have happened at all, because VES would have had more space on the left to circumnavigate RAI.

Basically this. Vettel is to blame somewhat but not 100% as many would quickly try to falsely point out. Also because of this and because it was a wet race start probably nothing will be done by the fia and will be deemed a racing incident.

If Vettel didn't crowd Max, the incident wouldn't of happened. Like I've said before, Vettel's aggression will bite him in the butt and it has. Vettel wasn't to know Kimi had a Stella start and was up along Max's side, but why take the risk when your fighting for the championship.

[Shrieker]

You can see he even flicks the wheel just minorily to the right, which is enough to make contact. It's much clearer from the head on shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui_HzXwnpnw

If anyone Rai should take the most blame. When people say 100% vettel's fault you know they have an agenda or didn't even watch the replays.

Can u do a slow mo (for forum users) ? I hit play/pause really fast right before the moment of contact, and it looks more or less clear to me that Kimi did move to the right before contact happened.

You can slowdown youtube clips on the youtube in the clip options.

Oh yes, right. Completely forgot that.

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What's funny in all this is that Verstappen was trying to run away from Vettel like he was running from lepper, then he sees Kimi on the left and he's like "uh oh". Then, Kimi veers right and Max's like "oh sh-", and before he completes his sentence, all is over.

[ClarkBT11]

What we need is an straight on looking overhead shot (was shown on sky post race) where you can easily see raikkonen turning into verstappen after he's half way trough, and that was what triggered the whole scenario.

yeah, watched that on youtube. RAI steers into VES and makes contact with VES and then VET hit by VES and collected by RAI.

But still VET played a big role in this, and without the apparent chop he might have come out of it unscathed...
or the whole thing might not have happened at all, because VES would have had more space on the left to circumnavigate RAI.

Basically this. Vettel is to blame somewhat but not 100% as many would quickly try to falsely point out. Also because of this and because it was a wet race start probably nothing will be done by the fia and will be deemed a racing incident.

If Vettel didn't crowd Max, the incident wouldn't of happened. Like I've said before, Vettel's aggression will bite him in the butt and it has. Vettel wasn't to know Kimi had a Stella start and was up along Max's side, but why take the risk when your fighting for the championship.

[ClarkBT11]

What we need is an straight on looking overhead shot (was shown on sky post race) where you can easily see raikkonen turning into verstappen after he's half way trough, and that was what triggered the whole scenario.

yeah, watched that on youtube. RAI steers into VES and makes contact with VES and then VET hit by VES and collected by RAI.

But still VET played a big role in this, and without the apparent chop he might have come out of it unscathed...
or the whole thing might not have happened at all, because VES would have had more space on the left to circumnavigate RAI.

Basically this. Vettel is to blame somewhat but not 100% as many would quickly try to falsely point out. Also because of this and because it was a wet race start probably nothing will be done by the fia and will be deemed a racing incident.

If Vettel didn't crowd Max, the incident wouldn't of happened. Like I've said before, Vettel's aggression will bite him in the butt and it has. Vettel wasn't to know Kimi had a Stella start and was up along Max's side, but why take the risk when your fighting for the championship.

[Moose]

We're getting pretty close to soft championship over with that victory. 28 points clear with 6 to go means that if Hamilton wins one more race with Vettel not second, then Vettel can win every remaining race with Hamilton second, and Hamilton still will win the championship. Even if Vettel were second, then he'd need to win every last remaining race, since it would result in a points draw, and a count back of races won.

Of course, anything can happen - Hamilton might have a retirement yet. More than likely though, Ferrari still have to change Vettel's engine a 5th time, and put him near the back of the grid at least once.

[Juzh]

Can u do a slow mo (for forum users) ? I hit play/pause really fast right before the moment of contact, and it looks more or less clear to me that Kimi did move to the right before contact happened.

You can slowdown youtube clips on the youtube in the clip options.

Oh yes, right. Completely forgot that.

And when you slow it down to 50% it's even more obvious (rai turning into max that is).

[Moose]

And when you slow it down to 50% it's even more obvious (rai turning into max that is).

Wow, you guys are *really* trying hard to make this not Vettel's fault, aren't you?

[Zynerji]

Vettel was first, and most entitled to choose his line.

[NathanOlder]

Vettel was first, and most entitled to choose his line.

God some people dont get it. You cant run people off the track!