Italian GP 2006

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
captainmorgan
captainmorgan
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 20:02

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is there a specific rule governing severity of punishment? Why 5 p's and not more or less?

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vyselegend
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

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captainmorgan wrote:is there a specific rule governing severity of punishment? Why 5 p's and not more or less?
The punishment was to cancel his three fastest laps from Q3, resulting to the end of the Q3 grid --> P10

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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All this s*** got me inspired.
As they say "poet needs the pain" or in my case "manchild needs injustice". :wink:

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Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006, 22:54
Location: Czech Republic

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captainmorgan wrote:is there a specific rule governing severity of punishment? Why 5 p's and not more or less?
This is the rule:
(A. 116b) If, in the opinion of the stewards, a driver deliberately stops on the circuit or impedes another driver in
any way during the qualifying practice session his times will be cancelled.
(A. 112) In the event of a driving infringement during practice the Stewards may delete any number of the relevant
driver's qualifying times. In this case, a team will not be able to appeal against the steward's decision.
“It’s frustrating, but we had the pace. It wasn’t bad luck. It was a reflection of our intensity of development.” - Ron Dennis

[EDF]Fx
[EDF]Fx
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006, 06:05

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Its quite simpel. If Alonso did impede Massa then he should be penalised and the Stewards ruled that Alonso did impede Massa so the the situation is clear.

Of course you could argue that as long as you can see a car infront of you are being impeded so somewhere the line must drawn and if you are a nice guy or not, WDC contender should not matter. In this case though I must say that its a borderline case.

Also I would like point out that I dont have all the facts and I suspect most people in here doesnt have them either.

/ Fx

FLC
FLC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

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:idea: :arrow: We never have all the facts :wink:

I feel for Alonso for wanting to make it to the start/finish before the flag but it was just a bad coincidence. I really dont think it has nothing to do with a conspiracy and I really do think that Massa had to slow down.

To manchild I'd like to wish that he sees MS racing till he's at the age of Max :wink: .

Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006, 22:54
Location: Czech Republic

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FLC wrote:To manchild I'd like to wish that he sees MS racing till is at the age of Max.
Just to keep him inspired? Maybe it is worth it! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
“It’s frustrating, but we had the pace. It wasn’t bad luck. It was a reflection of our intensity of development.” - Ron Dennis

Torsdagsapan
Torsdagsapan
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006, 00:23

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i just had to register and post a comment on this..
how come mass dampers were banned in germany, and alonso was penalised in italy? am i the only one who can see a veeery clear pattern here..
it's not like it's something new that ferrari make the rules in F1, but this is waaay more obvious now than it has been before. i can't believe that they are getting away with it.

wowf1
wowf1
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Joined: 05 Jan 2004, 13:53
Location: Brunel University, England

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F1 drives me insane sometimes. When I just saw on the web that Alonso had been penalised for holding up Massa, I was thinking 'the only time I saw them on the same screen was when Alonso had to set his quick out-lap'. But...I thought, Massa was nowhere near Alonso at that point, so it can't have been then.

BUT NO! The FIA saw fit to do some creative rule bending again.

I'm actually a very neutral F1 fan at the moment, searching for the next driver that I can get behind, so its not like I'm a conspiracy theorist or a Renault-worshipper.

But this stunt has got me riled. Really pissed off.

What a load of --- I read about Massa 'losing downforce'. Just because you lose downforce it doesn't mean someone held you up. To be honest I think its bollocks about losing downforce anyway, he wasn't close enough (yes, I saw it, half a straight away Massa was)

And let's hypothesise for a moment, even if Massa did lose downforce, and lost 0.3s, that still isn't grounds for a penalty for Alonso.

As someone posted, you get penalised for DELIBERATELY blocking. Massa wasn't close enough for Alonso to block, never mind deliberately block.

Total Bollocks.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/32421/
F1: Alonso Did Hamper Massa, Says Brawn
Written by: Adam Cooper RACER Magazine

Monza, Italy – 9/9/2006 Alonso's car was a "pain in the ass" for Massa, Brawn insists. (LAT Photo)

Ross Brawn insists that Felipe Massa was hampered by Fernando Alonso on his final attempt at securing pole in Monza, but says that the Spaniard did not intentionally hold up the Ferrari man.

Massa had set two fastest sector times and appeared to be destined for pole when Alonso came into his sights at Parabolica while on his out lap. Massa’s third sector was slower, and that meant that he dropped to fourth in the final order.

“We were a bit frustrated with Felipe’s situation with Alonso,” Brawn told SPEEDtv.com. “So that was a great shame. He held Felipe back, for sure. I don’t think it was intentional, but he was there. It was just a great shame that on Felipe’s fast lap he had a car that was going just a few seconds slower in front of him, because that’s the worst case.

“A car that’s going the same pace is fine, a car that’s really slow and you can overtake is fine. A car that’s going a few seconds slower than you, because he’s on his out lap, is a pain in the ass. But I don’t think it was intentional.”

Brawn says he was not surprised to see the opposition a lot closer in qualifying than had been the case earlier in the weekend.

“There isn’t much of a gap. Everyone was building up these big gaps, and I said based on testing there wasn’t going to be that much of a big gap, and I think we saw it. The tires are very consistent, and I think we can have a very good race tomorrow.”

He says he doesn’t know whether pole winner Kimi Raikkonen is running a significantly smaller fuel load, as was the case in Hockenheim.

“I hope so! I don’t know. If you look at all the factors you’d assume that, but you don’t know.”

Both Bridgestone (Yamamoto) and Michelin (Alonso) suffered punctures in qualifying, and Brawn admits that the situation is being carefully monitored.

“It is a fast track, and we’ve been very carefully examining all the tires. Bridgestone have been keeping everything very closely inspected.”

labrat
labrat
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Joined: 26 Aug 2006, 05:53

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pRo wrote:I wonder if Renault complained about that...?
The final grid positions will be published by the FIA on Sunday morning.
From formula1.com

If the case was clear, surely they would've published the final positions already?
The final grid is usually left to Sunday in case any engine swaps are needed when the teams check the engines after quali.

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Jason
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006, 09:12
Location: KL, Malaysia

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I don't think did block Massa, or did he? Or another solution, Massa was ordered by the Ferrari team to follow Alonso, so it will look like Alonso had block him and will be droped to P10 in favour of Michael Schumacher. If that was it, I think the other 10 team would storm into the Ferrari and demolish everything.
Never regret what you do, but only regret what you don't do. - Jenson Button
http://batracer.com/-1FrontPage.htm?LW


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kheopsb
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006, 07:27

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Despite being a Scuderia fan, I am hard pressed to see how or where Alonso "blocked" massa, maybe I'm not judging the distances correctly... what do you guys think?

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

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Hah, if that's even close to blocking then I'm the king of France.