Americans on moon?

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Did Americans really land on moon?

Yes
33
70%
No
14
30%
 
Total votes: 47

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Tom
0
Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Guys settle down. America has done great things and bad things, the same for Argentina, even England has won the Rugby World Cup to compensate for its many evil deeds. We are really launching away from the point here (see what I did there?) and at the end of the day this is not the attitude that will take us beyond the stars.

A great explanation Ciro, although a little demoralising. I've never watched Star Trek but Shatner is a hero of mine, living proof that someone with so little talent can get so far.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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Belatti wrote:Ciro, Ciro, why spending all that money and energy?
You can avoid all that by using a wormhole! 8) That would be teletransportation... :-k

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole
Well, I respectfully differ (again! :))

First, I believe it's not teleportation. I think teleportation involves converting the human body (or the thing you want to move) into information, moving the information to other site and then, reconstructing the body or thing from that information.

Second, wormholes have a large problem: the tidal forces. Those forces arise from the fact that when a body attracts another, the distance between the different parts of those bodies are not the same. Portions of the sea are closer to the moon than others, so they experience a larger force and thus, move or "bulge".

Image

An astronaut falling in a wormhole would experiences several funny things, similar to the ones he'd experience when reaching the speed of light (time will dilate, distances would shorten when seen from outside the wormhole). Nothing impassable, as I read.

If he is falling the enormous gravitation wouldn't crush him: he is falling, so he doesn't weigh more, the same way a rock falling doesn't "crush" under his own weight, because it's not supported by anything.

However, our hipothetical astronaut has a great problem in a wormhole: the difference in the force of attraction that his feet feels (if he is falling "feet down") and the force that his head experiences becomes larger and larger the closer he gets to the singularity (the black hole that creates the wormhole).

Finally, not even close to the event horizon (the "edge" of the black hole), he will be torn apart.

The travel I "described" can be realized with "simple" extrapolations of devices already invented: this kind of travel requires "incremental" technology. If we do not want to use antimatter (it sounds a little "out of this world") you can annihilate matter and obtain energy using a "common" nuclear fision or fusion reaction, so I believe is doable. It is a problem of engineering. All we need is time, money and ingenuity.

A travel through a wormhole requires a "bending" of the physical principles we know. So, I don't think they are usable for trips, unless a great advance happens in science. It is a problem for inventors, a harder proposition to accomplish.

As for the space technology coming from Russians or Americans, well, I think everybody knows the technology was developed in Germany in 1920-1930. America and Russia (and Ukraine! :)) took the technicians and scientists after World War II and gave them the money and the "local personal" they needed.

Old and rusty V2 engine found at the Dora tunnels in 1990, when the tunnel was reopened
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Saturn F1 engine: direct descendant from V2 engine down to the cooling and preheating "cyclone"
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Ciro

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

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Ray wrote: Not everything that America does is evil Belatti. We have done great things for all of humanity. I guess the king of the hill is the one everyone hates.
I don´t hate America or Americans in particular. More than that, I don´t even hate. I just condemn stupidity (believe me, sometimes I even condemn myself).
The space race was stupid (maybe not some of its results), war is stupid, making arms to destroy a planet 100 times earth is stupid, vote Bush is stupid (and I´m not talking about politic here) and eating the world the way YOU AND ME are doing is stupid, lets face it, stupidity is natural in the human race since the ecological balance is disrupted.
WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT! :D :D :D
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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In comparing the achievements of Russia and the USA in the space race, it's a tough call. The Russians were the first there with a satellite. They also achieved a lot of firsts, from first man (and woman) in space, multiple crews, space walks. And with their many long endurance mssions, the Russians have an overwhelming lead in studying the long term effects of zero gravity. At present the bulk of routine deliveries and servicing for the space station is performed by the Russians, with their fleet of reliable boosters, while every few months the USA manages to loft one of it's white elephant space shuttle into a high publicity media event. In fact, if there were no space station to act as an interimn lifeboat, the space shuttle would probably never fly again.
For anyone wishing to presonally view the space station, here's it's track.
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/tracking/

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Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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Great document, Ray. I think that settles it: notice that in photo number 2 the door of the landing module is ajar. I cannot wait for the fake travel to Mars. :)
Ciro