Le Mans 24 hours 2008

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Miguel
Miguel
2
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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Tomba wrote: In fact he would be the first to also have won the Indianapolis 500 I think ;)
Sporting a black helmet, with 4 white oar-shaped tabs representing the London rowing club... Graham Hill! According to wikipedia, Graham won the Indy 500 in 1966, making him the only man to win at Le Mans, Indy and Monaco.

And regarding the Kristensen spanking, I saw it, and i was laughing in the floor. Especially when Tom repeatedly said "Spank, spank, spank". Of course Audi won, they had the FIA on their side ;)
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

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vyselegend
0
Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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Just back from there. Those 24 hours will be remembered for a long time, what a race! Obviously I was disapointed for JV with #7 missing the win, but that means he have to try again next year, so it's not that bad. :wink:

Overall I'm happy with this result, Audi gave a valuable lesson to Peugeot about what real endurence is about. As some of the posters above explained very well, the "F1 style" agressive approach of the lions wasn't taking miscelaneous condition changes and incidents in account. I agree with the aforementioned theory that they had a very sharp set-up, which obviously wasn't soft enough under the rain. But I agree even more about the shame of the radiators issue. That is one area they reworked heavily since last year, and they thought they had overcome it. Bad work.
Also the truth is that the Peugeot crew showed their lack of experience, with some messy strategy, bad organisation, bad reaction to pressure (Minassian's tyre choices in the end not only prevented him to get the 2 min gap back, it made him sink one lap down...),unprepared drivers (don't be harsh with Klien, he had no experience in endurence and only drove the car in testing at HTTT before, the team should have given him a seat in LMS for one race at least!), and maybe some overconfidence, which backside is hurting psychologically. I'm sure they didn't sell the bear before they kill it, as they're not stupid people, but they probably felt the win was their when they realised the incredible pace advantage they had at the begining of the race.

Dr Ullrich's staff on the other side was absolutely perfect. Rigourous, organised, fast to take the good decision etc. The overall "classic" approach of Audi, while maybe a little too conservative (not enough pace in the car, without the rain they would quite certainly even have missed the podium), it proved the best fitted strategy for that very event they know so well.

While Peugeot was stunning because of their car, Audi was amazing as a team, the quality of their prestation was without comparison. They were coping with a 4 sec/lap gap only by extracting 120% of everything, everytime. Pit crew was irreprochable, inginneers & drivers made the perfect tyre choices. And, more than everything else, Audi had experienced endurence drivers, able to give 120% on quadruple stints! With sometime keeping the tyres for three consecutive runs. Seems they had a better comprehension of the Michelins too,as the 908 was destroying them.

With some distance now, I analyse it as the better result possible. This battle is doing good to every actors involved, be it competitors, manufacturers, sponsors, ACO or spectators. BUT both of the two giants have to win it's share of the cake to be satisfied and continue like that. Since Sebring every time you see a Pug near an Audi, it's either overtaking it or distancing it (both most of times), so for Audi's image, it was not that constructive (especially coupled with the ALMS issue, where they are teased by LMP2s). That important win is reassuring them that they benefit from the fight as much as Peugeot (and even more I'd say since the 24 hours are more important than LMS and ALMS), so we will have the same fight again next years, hopefully dragging more manufacturers in the game.

Congratulation to the Dome, which managed to cross the checkered flag, even holding one of the fastest lap time of the "Petrol Class", along the (not so lucky) Lola Aston. Even those guys were breaking the 3'30 barrier, so you can be sure next year there wil be some actions taken.

P2 battle was good too, with Saulnier's Pascarollo surprisingly fast enough to pressure the Lola coupe and the Porsches.

GT1 is cruelly missing cars, and GT2 is missing diversity. Both Spykers retired, so it was a F430 vs 997 fight again... That left me disapointed with GT class. They have the better sounding engines though...

Speaking of it, I have to say the diesels engine noise was worse than I thought! :evil: By reading comments here and there, I had understand that they didn't match petrol engines, but comming near the track I realised they makes almost no sound at all! Nearly like an electric engine. A Fiat 500 is doing more decibels, and in a more sporty sounding way... That's shamefull really.
With no Panoz this year, the role of "eardrum destroyer" was left to the Mugen engine of the red C70, with an exhaust sound very mettalic and so much decibels it was really hurting. Then came the Corvettes V8, incredibly loud and torquy-sounding, followed by the Spykers. All GT V12s where nice, Lamborghini's revving furiously, while Astons sound very clean, linear output. Didn't like the F430 sound, feeling somewhat synthetic. I prefered the Porsche's flat 6.

For now I have to catch up with all the missed work of last week, but as soon as I can I'll upload some of the pics I've taken there.

Miguel
Miguel
2
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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Hi vyselegend,

Glad to hear you had a great time! I'm anxiously waiting for the pictures. I'd love to ask you a couple of questions. What kind of off-track activity is there? With so many people, I guess there has to be some kind of stand or whatever. And I'm also interested about the night stint? Is it tough? Do people get some sleep? Or is it a full-night party? What about the information? After many hours I guess even the most hardcore fans lose the lapcount.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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vyselegend Thanks for posting your Le Leman's race experience. It's great to read first hand impressions and I look forward to the pics. Welcome back.

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vyselegend
0
Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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Thanks for the kind comments guys.
Miguel wrote:What kind of off-track activity is there? With so many people, I guess there has to be some kind of stand or whatever.
Well, as you certainly know it's quite a big track (13.6 km) based between Le Mans city and the villages of Mulsanne and Arnage (giving their names to the respectives corners), so you are in a green campaign, but very close to urban activity. In the perimeter of the track itself, you'll find a lot of bars, sandwich sellers, ice creams etc. There is a luna-park like fun fair along the portion from the Porsche curve to the start/finish straight. I didn't get there but I could see many attractions, it seemed like a normal fair. On this pic taken from the grandstand you can see the big wheel:

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Also during the days before the race, you can vist the pit lane, and wander around in the "village", which apparently was a nice place but has been rebuilt in concrete shops and bars etc, everyone knowing LM well told me it was a pitty. But, as I had never seen it before, it didn't really matters. In there you'll find some legends of the group C period exposed, and you can really go and touch them, it is very open, I could take some very close pics. I could even see (and hear :D ) them racing during the group C 10 laps race saturday morning. There were also some stands of sponsor brands, a KTM X bow exposed, and a Gran Turismo 5 simulator hall, where I really wanted to go and see if they had added the LM track to prologue like they did at 24 hours of Nurburgring, but unfortunately we had to move at this moment and I didn't come there after. A few pics from the village:

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But let's be honnest, the principal occupation of everyone is to eat and drink, and absolutely everyone is drunk, more or less severely. It was also funny to read about Rockenfeller explaining that while driving through some places he got distracted by the odour of mergez floating in the air. I bet he was talking about the Indiannapolis / Arnage section were our camp was. Barbecue is mandatory at Le Mans. :wink:
Miguel wrote:And I'm also interested about the night stint? Is it tough? Do people get some sleep? Or is it a full-night party?
Personally I almost made the 24h, I just had a quick sleep from 6pm to 8pm on saturday, then again from 8am to 10am on sunday morning. Actually I was just back to Arnage from a night trip when it started to rain, and as I decided to go in the tent I heard on the radio (I ALWAYS had an earpiece radio, even while sleeping lol, sunday my ears were hurting hard) that things were becoming interesting with Pug in difficulties, so I took a chair and sat in Arnage all the night with a chronometer, calculating the flowing gap between #7 and #2.
Obviously a lot of people get to sleep in the night, as you can enjoy half empty grandstand and acces the track more easily, while in the day it can become far too much crowded (Mulsanne corner on sunday was terrible, I had to fight my way to see a little bit of the action). A few pics taken at night, from start/finish line to tertre rouge:

this one was during the safety car period after the #16 pescarolo crash:
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here you can see nearly empty grandstand at 3am, they were full on daytime:
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Miguel wrote:What about the information? After many hours I guess even the most hardcore fans lose the lapcount.
You hurt the sensible point. The truth is you can follow the race far better with TV and live timing at home, because you can hardly hear anything on the radio when close of the track because of the engine's noise (diesels excepted :roll: ), and if you go away obviously you're just a guy hearing radio Le Mans in the middle of nowhere, so you'd better be at home with live timming.

But since this year there were the Kangaroo TV available (the ones from F1), so if you crack some 80€ (the week) or 45€ (the 24h) you could see the same content as the one on the giant screens. I was motivated to pay for one despite the heavy price, but as our group leaves right at the moment the winner crosses the line (to avoid traffic congestion), I wouldn't have been able to give it back. What I'd really like is that the ACO would provides a decent wifi network allowing everyone to connect with his own laptop, PSP etc. But as they choose the expensive Kangaroo TV solution, it's unlikely.

But the real reason everyone looses the lap count is, as I already said, because they're all drunk! :mrgreen: Me included of course.

If you get there next year I'd be glad to meet you, as anyone from the forum. BTW I was able to meet Ranald during my pit walk. Unfortunately the team was quite busy so we could just exchange a few words and I could at least take a closer pic of the DBR9, that was a funny feeling to meet someone from F1T.

Team Modena mechanics filling the radiator:
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I'll try to upload more pics later.

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
9
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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that sounds like sooo much fun.....I definitely will try to go either next or the year after......after saving up some money in Canada....lol

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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vyselegend wrote:...Overall I'm happy with this result, Audi gave a valuable lesson to Peugeot about what real endurence is about. As some of the posters above explained very well, the "F1 style" agressive approach of the lions wasn't taking miscelaneous condition changes and incidents in account. I agree with the aforementioned theory that they had a very sharp set-up, which obviously wasn't soft enough under the rain. But I agree even more about the shame of the radiators issue. That is one area they reworked heavily since last year, and they thought they had overcome it. Bad work.
Also the truth is that the Peugeot crew showed their lack of experience, with some messy strategy, bad organisation, bad reaction to pressure (Minassian's tyre choices in the end not only prevented him to get the 2 min gap back, it made him sink one lap down...),unprepared drivers (don't be harsh with Klien, he had no experience in endurence and only drove the car in testing at HTTT before, the team should have given him a seat in LMS for one race at least!), and maybe some overconfidence, which backside is hurting psychologically. I'm sure they didn't sell the bear before they kill it, as they're not stupid people, but they probably felt the win was their when they realised the incredible pace advantage they had at the begining of the race.

Dr Ullrich's staff on the other side was absolutely perfect. Rigourous, organised, fast to take the good decision etc. The overall "classic" approach of Audi, while maybe a little too conservative (not enough pace in the car, without the rain they would quite certainly even have missed the podium), it proved the best fitted strategy for that very event they know so well.

While Peugeot was stunning because of their car, Audi was amazing as a team, the quality of their prestation was without comparison. They were coping with a 4 sec/lap gap only by extracting 120% of everything, everytime. Pit crew was irreprochable, inginneers & drivers made the perfect tyre choices. And, more than everything else, Audi had experienced endurence drivers, able to give 120% on quadruple stints! With sometime keeping the tyres for three consecutive runs. Seems they had a better comprehension of the Michelins too,as the 908 was destroying them.

With some distance now, I analyse it as the better result possible. This battle is doing good to every actors involved, be it competitors, manufacturers, sponsors, ACO or spectators....
TX, vyselegend for adding the pitlane reporter view. I noticed, that a lot of VW/Porsche brass was there. Piech, Winterkorn and lots of absolutely top level board members. I reckon that they are going to continue their LeMans committment and come back with a new car next year. They need to do something with Porsche in GT though. Obviously they pissed off the ACO to get so few cars into the race and something must be done to address this and get on the good side of the organizers. I thought ACO did a super job for the arm chair viewers with the F1 style glas fiber cable and the in car footage. it helped tremendously with following the racing and keep me awake through the night.

Peugeot were super sportsmen and will have learned a great deal from the race. I'm sure next time they will be much better prepared for all weather and pay more attention to set up, flexibility and pit work proficiency. Nobody can control the weather and 2 hours less rain would have seen them win this race. it was very close. I appreciated that it was on edge most of the time. this was fantastic entertainment and by far the best Le Mans I have followed for a long time. live timing was a big advantage also to keep score and its a shame that there is no sponsor who is willing to WIFI it out there.

One of the nice things of Le Mans is the appearance of so many guys you know from the old times. seeing Heinz Harald Frenzen and Karl Wendlinger out in the Aston Martin was nice. All the German spoken drivers kept coming to the Eurosport commentating booth over the race hours and some stayed for 2 hours of commentating stints. very cool.

I have to say that I was tremendously impressed with the driving of both top cars. kudos to those 6 guys. they were all incredible. you have to remember that we watch a complete F1 season of 18 race distances rolled into one race. to keep this on the wire to the last hour and make no mistake under pressure was unbelievable and also very brave considering how much the cars are on the edge.

I could imagine that Dome could become the focal point for another Japanese attack in the next years. perhaps one of the big manufacturers will throw his weight behind it. a three way battle would be cool.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Miguel
Miguel
2
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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Thank you very much, Vyselegend! That's a lot of info I always wanted to know but somehow eluded me. In any case, I'm not that much surprised with that Kangaroo TV deal. I consider WiFi impractical yet, and not because WiFi itself, but because laptops don't really have good battery life. With wireless on and some decent brightness, I doubt you'd get 5 hours on anything.

Regarding sporting behaviour, I remember there were some very long faces in the Monza LMS race. I guess everybody was pretty tense there, with Le Mans just a month away, since things seem to be on a more normal level now. At least from the outside.

Again, thanks for your pics and your comments, Vyselegend, they are very appreciated!
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

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vyselegend
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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I'm glad you liked it. :wink:

Here a new upload, mainly pics from friday's pit walk. I hope the storage server won't get overloaded...


Welcome to Guantanamo!
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Sorry, I mean Le Mans. (you HAVE to buy a ticket to enter lol)
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Some excentric fans attacking the commentator:
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That was funny.

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The YGK powered car was an impressive effort from japanese students. =D> Note the rather simple suspention layout.
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Took that pic in front of Peugeot garage, it troubled me. Is it the rear floor section, or just an upper layer where the engine sits?
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Audi's uncovered brake duct and suspention.
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The Dome was one of the hardest car to shoot, as the garage shuter was 1/3 closed, and the crowded staff added to the dark ambiance, despite working in white overalls on a white car.
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modbaraban
modbaraban
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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vyselegend wrote:Some excentric fans attacking the commentator:
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That was funny.
Those are radicals! Look at the flag :lol:

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vyselegend
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

Re: Le Mans 24 hours 2008

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modbaraban wrote:
vyselegend wrote:Some excentric fans attacking the commentator:
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That was funny.
Those are radicals! Look at the flag :lol:
Yes they are! :) You have to admire the commentator, he was able to keep his smile and do his job while they were really jumping on him and shouting like crazy. Those Radical fans weren't looking drunk, but I really wonder if they weren't on LSD...
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As a last update, before leaving this topic in peace, here comes a few pics of actual racing:

Group C battle in the morning
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The beast with the most beautifull sound. Mazda's tri rotor engine :-({|= . (sorry for the focus on the grating)
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This ones shows how close of the track you can be at Arnage (~5m)
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This truck comes with it's giant screen only for the race itself, up to saturday morning there's nothing between Indianapolis & Arnage.
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The action seen on the giant screen at night
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