Silly Season 2016/2017

[Manoah2u]

One thing i am absolutely sure of though; If Mclaren-Honda is not producing a guaranteed race winning car, that might be WDC potential or atleast able to develop into one next year, then Alonso will undoubtedly leave Mclaren before the season is over and either retire from F1 alltogether or if Mercedes has a spot if Nico and Lewis bash their brains out on track again, move to Merc.

You are absolutely sure that Alonso either retries mid-season in '17 or moves to Merc ?

Is reading really hard for you?

If Mclaren-Honda is not producing a guaranteed race winning car

take note.

Let's ignore the latter but:
- Even with undeserved Ecclestone riches McLaren still need results and money, putting unprepared driver half way through the season would compromise both goals and even if you can argue they might save with a high contract it's still not a good idea (image, WCC points) Why would they agree to that?

they dont have to agree, it means squad. Alonso has 100% certain a exit clause. So adios amigos if it's not what he wants.
Meanwhile, Alonso costs a big buck, but then, if the car still is trash [ probably not, but will it be good enough ] then who can they put in there? Ah look, JB is ready on the bench. Enter experienced Button. no harm for Merc but some PR work on handling the Alonso exit.

Btw, 'undeserved ecclestone riches', Mclaren had a insane spygate fine and they hardly had a sweat. And again, JB is neither unprepared.

- you do not need many races to know if the car is good, tests should be enough so if he retires it should be before or after the season

No, especially with the limited testing next year teams are in the blind on where they'll really end up. All they'll have is their own information and whether it corresponds to the data they will expect. With the new wheels and all, testing will have other priorities. Only if a team will be ultra-dominant like Merc has been up untill now you might get a sniff of that during testing. You won't know if the car is 'real good' or 'meh' or 'bad' untill you get to the first race weekend. Only if it's REALLY BAD, they'll know, but that's not what to expect. It's not whether Mclaren will be decent or whether they made some improvement. It's all about whether this time, they have a GP winning car, and potentially, a WDC car for Fernando.
You won't know that untill you have had a few races under your belt. Hence, no likey, adios midway through.

- why would a driver want to quit F1 and his team mid-season with any car, race winning or not?

read the post you quoted again, and read my quote above here again.

Vandoorne vs Alonso, will be hard to judge. Is Alonso still really good? I think so, but are the chances high that he's fading from that 'high' he was on before? I assume so.
Leading to the conclusion that Alonso is a big question mark to compare to unless he has similar material vs a topdriver like Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkonen.

You put a question mark next to Alonso because he's fading and doesn't have a 'top driver' like Raikkonen next to him? The same 37 year old and two years older than FA KR is a top benchmark? The same one who for the last three years at Ferrari including one next to Alonso couldn't put a good (nevermind top) race together but had literally dozens at below basic F1 driver competence?

benchmark of experience in material where one can be judged more or less. You can 'rate' kimi on how he's holding to Vettel, and vise versa. both are holding their ground against eachother. easy peasy. Meanwhile, Kimi is a WDC as well as Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton. These are the pack of drivers with more or less similar years in f1, similar career 'changes' and challenges. Guys like Verstappen have not had these, so are not comparable.
If Alonso in the Macca now had Hamilton or Raikkonen next to him, you could better see where he'd be at. On par? then he's still conciderably capable. Better? Worse? Do i really need to go on?

As for Renault:

- My impression was that Perez and Sainz were alternatives. More specifically Perez to Sainz and his sponsors from Movistar (or whatever). Perhaps real, perhaps fake = negotiations. Now that Perez is most likely staying at FI but it's not announced both delays are I think connected
- Pursuing equally chaotic, basic and perhaps slower Sainz when they have Magnussen is interesting. If those 3 and Ocon are their choices it shows that the level of incompetence at Renault is constant and they continue doing their best Toyota impression. Just like Ferrari before this season I hope the car is great and they have no real world excuses.

Sainz is not slower than Magnussen, nor as chaotic. Sainz clearly has potential. Magnussen had a great start at Mclaren, but tumbled down insanely fast.

I'm rather sure btw Renault has a better view on who is suited for them compared to thinking they're incompetent on looking for potentially classy drivers. Magnussen sure as hell isn't. Sainz, Perez over him a thousand times. Ocon has - for the thousand time - had unworthy material handed to him compared to his teammate due to technical problems and pitstop failures. First have to see, and i'm personally not that impressed about Ocon ever, though i like to be proven otherwise. Will you swallow that statement then if Ocon gets proper material handed to him and turns out completely obliterating Wehrlein to bits and pieces?

[edu2703]

Ocon has - for the thousand time - had unworthy material handed to him compared to his teammate due to technical problems and pitstop failures. First have to see, and i'm personally not that impressed about Ocon ever, though i like to be proven otherwise. Will you swallow that statement then if Ocon gets proper material handed to him and turns out completely obliterating Wehrlein to bits and pieces?

Err ... again about Ocon.

His race pace is slow compared to Werhlein. At the Italian GP, Werhlein was 1.3s faster per lap than Ocon util the lap 26 where Werhlein had to retire from the race.

At the Singapore GP, Ocon improved a bit, but was still 0,6 seconds slower than Werhlein per lap. I don't think a long pitstop affects your race pace.

Plus Werhlein is 0.6s faster than Ocon in qualifying.

Will you swallow que statement then if Ocon gets proper materials handed to him and turns out completely obliterating Wehrlein to bits and pieces

My answer is: We'll see! But I will never forget Rio Haryanto, called 'mediocre driver', outperforming Werhlein in his first qualifying session in F1 (Australian GP). In qualifying, Haryanto beats Werhlein 5 of his 12 qualifying sessions in F1.

Now comes Esteban Ocon (Very talented, beats Verstappen in F3, won the European F3 Championship and GP3 Championship in his debut season), 0.6s slower than Werhlein in qualify and 0.6 slower than Werhlein in race pace . F1 can be cruel sometimes!

[Jolle]

Ocon has - for the thousand time - had unworthy material handed to him compared to his teammate due to technical problems and pitstop failures. First have to see, and i'm personally not that impressed about Ocon ever, though i like to be proven otherwise. Will you swallow that statement then if Ocon gets proper material handed to him and turns out completely obliterating Wehrlein to bits and pieces?

Err ... again about Ocon.

His race pace is slow compared to Werhlein. At the Italian GP, Werhlein was 1.3s faster per lap than Ocon util the lap 26 where Werhlein had to retire from the race.

At the Singapore GP, Ocon improved a bit, but was still 0,6 seconds slower than Werhlein per lap. I don't think a long pitstop affects your race pace.

Plus Werhlein is 0.6s faster than Ocon in qualifying.

Will you swallow que statement then if Ocon gets proper materials handed to him and turns out completely obliterating Wehrlein to bits and pieces

My answer is: We'll see! But I will never forget Rio Haryanto, called 'mediocre driver', outperforming Werhlein in his first qualifying session in F1 (Australian GP). In qualifying, Haryanto beats Werhlein 5 of his 12 qualifying sessions in F1.

Now comes Esteban Ocon (Very talented, beats Verstappen in F3, won the European F3 Championship and GP3 Championship in his debut season), 0.6s slower than Werhlein in qualify and 0.6 slower than Werhlein in race pace . F1 can be cruel sometimes!

You are comparing a driver who has been in a not too bad but also not very good car in a very small team without a sim or the experience for almost a whole season including testing to a driver who has been in the same car with a new team for a couple of hours?

[edu2703]

You are comparing a driver who has been in a not too bad but also not very good car in a very small team without a sim or the experience for almost a whole season including testing to a driver who has been in the same car with a new team for a couple of hours?

If you think I'm trying to convince everyone that Ocon is a bad driver, the answer is no.

It's a true fact about his performance in F1 so far. Of course your 'lack of experience' 'will be used as an excuse to justify his bad performance compared to his teammate.

But that's why I'm disappointed with Ocon. He won the European F3 Championship and the GP3 Championship in his debut season. I thought he would adapt quickly to F1 cars. But it's not what's happening.

My question is: If Ocon continue to be outperformed by his teammate until the end of this season, his 'lack of experience' will be an acceptable excuse for him deserve a place at Renault next year?

This question I will let you answer.

[Vasconia]

Red Bull not interested in Sainz/Renault deal

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... al-829037/

100% logic but I am afraid that this will ruin Sainz future in F1. Renault was a good Project for the future and other top options(RB, Mercedes, Ferrari) are closed for him. RB thinks only in RB and they wont favour Sainz´s personal options.

[Manoah2u]

Ocon has - for the thousand time - had unworthy material handed to him compared to his teammate due to technical problems and pitstop failures. First have to see, and i'm personally not that impressed about Ocon ever, though i like to be proven otherwise. Will you swallow that statement then if Ocon gets proper material handed to him and turns out completely obliterating Wehrlein to bits and pieces?

Err ... again about Ocon.

His race pace is slow compared to Werhlein. At the Italian GP, Werhlein was 1.3s faster per lap than Ocon util the lap 26 where Werhlein had to retire from the race.

wow just wow. are you delibaretely shooting around nonsense?

how many times do people have to repeat he had a dog of a car with technical problems, compared to his
teammate who was running problem free? perhaps you should READ before commenting, perhaps 3 times if you
missed all the posts about this. Both here, both at the race threads.

At the Singapore GP, Ocon improved a bit, but was still 0,6 seconds slower than Werhlein per lap. I don't think a long pitstop affects your race pace.

i'm not going to repeat it again.

Plus Werhlein is 0.6s faster than Ocon in qualifying.

My answer is: We'll see! But I will never forget Rio Haryanto, called 'mediocre driver', outperforming Werhlein in his first qualifying session in F1 (Australian GP). In qualifying, Haryanto beats Werhlein 5 of his 12 qualifying sessions in F1.

that means Wehrlein beat haryanto 7 times out of qually sessions in F1.
i wonder if you actually saw a single race looking at all the above. Haryanto only in the last races he competed in shown some 'improvement' but it was still nothign but a guy who bought a seat in F1 and then was ditched because the actual money didn't come.

Now comes Esteban Ocon (Very talented, beats Verstappen in F3, won the European F3 Championship and GP3 Championship in his debut season), 0.6s slower than Werhlein in qualify and 0.6 slower than Werhlein in race pace . F1 can be cruel sometimes!

cruel sometimes? dude what on earth are you talking about?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Ocon has - for the thousand time - had unworthy material handed to him compared to his teammate due to technical problems and pitstop failures. First have to see, and i'm personally not that impressed about Ocon ever, though i like to be proven otherwise. Will you swallow that statement then if Ocon gets proper material handed to him and turns out completely obliterating Wehrlein to bits and pieces?

Err ... again about Ocon.

His race pace is slow compared to Werhlein. At the Italian GP, Werhlein was 1.3s faster per lap than Ocon util the lap 26 where Werhlein had to retire from the race.

wow just wow. are you delibaretely shooting around nonsense?

how many times do people have to repeat he had a dog of a car with technical problems, compared to his
teammate who was running problem free? perhaps you should READ before commenting, perhaps 3 times if you
missed all the posts about this. Both here, both at the race threads.

At the Singapore GP, Ocon improved a bit, but was still 0,6 seconds slower than Werhlein per lap. I don't think a long pitstop affects your race pace.

i'm not going to repeat it again.

Plus Werhlein is 0.6s faster than Ocon in qualifying.

My answer is: We'll see! But I will never forget Rio Haryanto, called 'mediocre driver', outperforming Werhlein in his first qualifying session in F1 (Australian GP). In qualifying, Haryanto beats Werhlein 5 of his 12 qualifying sessions in F1.

that means Wehrlein beat haryanto 7 times out of qually sessions in F1.
i wonder if you actually saw a single race looking at all the above. Haryanto only in the last races he competed in shown some 'improvement' but it was still nothign but a guy who bought a seat in F1 and then was ditched because the actual money didn't come.

Now comes Esteban Ocon (Very talented, beats Verstappen in F3, won the European F3 Championship and GP3 Championship in his debut season), 0.6s slower than Werhlein in qualify and 0.6 slower than Werhlein in race pace . F1 can be cruel sometimes!

cruel sometimes? dude what on earth are you talking about?

Manor's issues in F1's Italian GP unacceptable, chief Ryan believes
Manor F1 team has let new recruit Ocon down, boss Ryan feels

Manor racing director Dave Ryan feels the team has not done a good enough job for Esteban Ocon since giving him a Formula 1 race seat.

[Manoah2u]

"Everyone has to assume and responsibility. You can't just sit there and say I told them. That's not how it works.

Love this attitude, that's absolutely true. That's the difference in having a crew 'doing something' and a crew 'getting things done' - and im talking for every aspect of life for that matter, ergo, also outside of F1. It must be said, Manor sprinted forwards with the new 'crew'. Let's hope these guys will make it work into becoming part of the established order in a few years time.

But anyway, anybody still hammering on Ocon after all this, well, that's a hater by definition.

[ME4ME]

Ocon took a risk by entering mid-season. Very few drivers succeed to impress. Regardless of Ocon's real performance, the perception of the situation is that he hasn't done enough. What he needs to do is to show progress.

If he'd be at Manor next year then I wouldn't care. But a Renault seat is much more valuable, and thus one can question Ocon's "right" to be at Renault when there are other talented drivers available.

[edu2703]

Wow! Let's take it easy!

I am not a Ocon hater. I am saying a true fact . Now if you have the conviction that Ocon is a talented driver and/or his bad performance has a logical explanation, Okay! I respect.

We'll see. I will not call Ocon bad driver because I recognize that he drive a bad car. But so far nothing is convincing me that he's talented. If you think he's talented, I respect your opinion.

[edu2703]

If he'd be at Manor next year then I wouldn't care. But a Renault seat is much more valuable, and thus one can question Ocon's "right" to be at Renault when there are other talented drivers available.

This is what am trying to say. People here are thinking I'm a Ocon hater just because I questioned if he deserves a seat at Renault based on his talent and performance with so many other talented drivers available.

I admit. I would be disappointed if Renault hire him in this moment.

[edu2703]

But anyway, anybody still hammering on Ocon after all this, well, that's a hater by definition.

So, Pascal Werhlein is a Ocon hater?

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/m ... 82003.html

Penultimate paragraph: "In direct comparison, Esteban seems not better than me so far, and he is generally rated really highly. Which is of course good for me."

[ChrisDanger]

So, Pascal Werhlein is a Ocon hater?

Because Wehrlein is probably the most objective person in this whole equation. I mean, he has nothing to benefit from being favourably compared to a driver who is generally considered to be talented.

I think it's way too early to evaluate Ocon, with his lack of experience compared with Wehrlein, adjustment to a new team, and that team's well-publcised issues over the last three races.

[Manoah2u]

But anyway, anybody still hammering on Ocon after all this, well, that's a hater by definition.

So, Pascal Werhlein is a Ocon hater?

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/m ... 82003.html

Penultimate paragraph: "In direct comparison, Esteban seems not better than me so far, and he is generally rated really highly. Which is of course good for me."

I think it's for all clear to see what you're aiming for in this topic. Well, every'body's entitled to their opinion though. Even if it makes no sense, but well.

[FrukostScones]

PER to Haas, you heard it here first.