Mercedes W13

[dans79]

This year there have already been rumours of a cooling system housed within the fuel tank. Now it is of a side-pod free design.

I think that might be technically legal, but it would come with a host of major issues.

1. The fuel Must be no more than 10C below ambient temperature. (6.4.2)
2. The plenum air temperature must be more 10C above ambient (5.7.8 )
3. The volume and thus capacity of the hear reservoir would change over the course of a race (fuel burn off)

Thus if you use the fuel tank to cool the PU, you have to work even harder to cool the inletchare, while not violating the temperature constraint. Your ability to cool the PU would reduce as the fuel warms, and it's volume reduces.

Thing is, if the (current) secondary cooling systems become more powerful than the (current) primary cooling systems, the whole thing becomes illegal anyway…

How would it be illegal?

From a legal perspective (and the regulations are a legal document), whichever cooling system does the greater amount of cooling would be considered the primary cooling system. A fine line to play…

The rules don't define what's considered primary or secondary based on cooling capacity, but on what the cooling medium is.

see the definitions in 7.4.1

Primary Heat Exchanger: a heat exchanger that uses the air flowing over or through
the car to cool a fluid, which includes all of the core, tubes, header plates, header
tanks and fins

Secondary Heat Exchanger: a heat exchanger that uses a fluid other than the air
flowing over or through the car to cool another fluid.

[dans79]

I assume he's saying if the secondary cooling system becomes more powerful than the primary system then the secondary system becomes the primary system and the rules that apply to the primary system would make it illegal?

Se the response just above this, the rules don't define primary and secondary in this fashion!

[dans79]

I can't imagine there is any "heat reservoir" phenomena that allows them to run a reduced cooling system for a 90 minute long race. It would work for some qualifying laps but I think a race distance is too long.

That for sure wouldn't work. a heat reservoir would work around the fact that the cooling system ability is based on the speed of the car. So at slow speed heat builds up in the revivor, and at high speeds speeds it would dissipate. Just to be clear, we are not talking about a trivial problem, You would have to be spot on with all your calculations and engineering, even more so than with the current systems.

[F1Krof]

Has anyone else heard or know anything about this revolutionary cooling system?

That's rather ominous if true...

They're just trolling, there won't be such a thing. If there is such a huge upgrade, I'm expecting it to be from Ferrari, they're just shifting the focus out of them.

[izzy]

They can't the rules forbid it in the primary exchangers.

7.4.2 d

The internal cross section of any tube must have an area of at least 10mm2, without considering structural stiffening ribs and the internal fins described in point (e) below.

I don't see a rule on the cross-sectional shape of the tubes? Obviously round is the worst for heat dissipation, and conversely if they can make them very, very flat, or even wavy, then it doesn't matter so much what the area is.

And also, if they allow stiffening ribs then it raises the question about exactly where a 'tube' ends and the next one begins. Tho this is all quite obvious I suppose, and it is all very constrained isn't it, 'planar' and everything.

[dans79]

They can't the rules forbid it in the primary exchangers.

7.4.2 d

The internal cross section of any tube must have an area of at least 10mm2, without considering structural stiffening ribs and the internal fins described in point (e) below.

I don't see a rule on the cross-sectional shape of the tubes? Obviously round is the worst for heat dissipation, and conversely if they can make them very, very flat, or even wavy, then it doesn't matter so much what the area is.

And also, if they allow stiffening ribs then it raises the question about exactly where a 'tube' ends and the next one begins. Tho this is all quite obvious I suppose, and it is all very constrained isn't it, 'planar' and everything.

Here are the rules,relating to the primary exchangers. Teams would be hard pressed to squeeze any extra performance out of the exchanger based purely on it's mechanical design!

7.4.2 Primary heat exchanger specification and technology

In order to reduce the cost of primary heat exchangers used on the car, the following
restrictions apply:
a. The core and header tanks must be made from aluminium alloy.
b. The core must not be produced using additive manufacturing.
c. Tubes must have a wall thickness of at least 0.18mm.
d. The internal cross section of any tube must have an area of at least 10mm2, without considering structural stiffening ribs and the internal fins described in point (e) below.

e. Fins fitted inside the tubes must have a thickness of at least 0.06mm. Fins fitted between the tubes must have a minimum thickness of 0.05mm.

In any liquid to air primary heat exchanger, the following additional restrictions apply:

f. Its core may be divided in to two or more parts, each part must be planar and all parts must be parallel with each other. Tubes must be straight and parallel.
g. Header plates must be perpendicular to the face of the core when measured in the plane of the tubes and air fins. The angle between the header plate and a tube, at their intersection, must not be less than 60°. Furthermore, with the exception of up to two sharp corners per header plate, the header plate may not have a radius of curvature of less than 50mm, prior to the holes being added for the tubes.

[PlatinumZealot]

10mm2 is pretty much a microtube if you ask me!

That's an inside diameter (if circular) of 3.56mm.

[vorticism]

Have I read the rules wrong? Edit: Yes.

[MV8]

What this thing on the halo?

https://i.postimg.cc/wM4zGwCy/Image-6.jpg

This would be legal (if it's an aero device)? is allowed to put that type of shape in the structure of the halo? what about security specs?

[dans79]

10mm2 is pretty much a microtube if you ask me!

That's an inside diameter (if circular) of 3.56mm.

You can get Al tubbing with Ids as small 1/16" (~1.58 mm) from pretty much any major industrial supplier. The real issue is that at some point you will expend so much energy pumping the fluid through the tubes that going smaller isn't worth it.

[izzy]

10mm2 is pretty much a microtube if you ask me!

That's an inside diameter (if circular) of 3.56mm.

You can get Al tubbing with Ids as small 1/16" (~1.58 mm) from pretty much any major industrial supplier. The real issue is that at some point you will expend so much energy pumping the fluid through the tubes that going smaller isn't worth it.

Yes it'd only make sense for a short tube wouldn't it, and a lot of them. And then there's the weight. They could go 2x5mm oval, kind of thing. And also there's having the engine run hotter, which I have an idea they might have done.

[dans79]

I should add Sauber ran small/narrow sidepods in 2013, so really small isn't exactly a new thing. It all comes back to how good the cooling package is, and how tolerant of heat the PU is.

C32, vs C31 see the turning vane gaps.

[SuperCNJ]

Has anyone else heard or know anything about this revolutionary cooling system?

That's rather ominous if true...

They're just trolling, there won't be such a thing. If there is such a huge upgrade, I'm expecting it to be from Ferrari, they're just shifting the focus out of them.

Yes, and even if it turns out to be true, how anyone can say that it will blow the competition away with that alone when they haven't even hit the track let alone race each other is completely absurd.

[Shaddock]

Just coming back to CCS or Chemical cooling. Is there anything in the regs to prevent one side of the engine being cooled by one type of coolant and the other side a different type. Keeping them separate in the engine you could pipe them to a small heat exchanger where they would/could 'mix' in a controlled manner in an endothermic reaction. Chemicals such as barium hydroxide octahydrate and ammonium thiocyanate will freeze if they come into contact with each other for example.

[ClarkBT11]

What this thing on the halo?

https://i.postimg.cc/wM4zGwCy/Image-6.jpg

This would be legal (if it's an aero device)? is allowed to put that type of shape in the structure of the halo? what about security specs?

I think it's a aid that's only used in the pits i.e holding a fan or timing screen for the driver