Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[McL-H]

To understand better, as @RolledaNsx says:

The Honda PU used in Alonso's car today (Friday) was spec 2.5(new fuel,turbo,MGU-H,better working injectors and better mapping), not 3.0(new cc design,pre-chamber heads,pistons).

The PU they will be racing with this weekend is spec 2.2(new turbo and MGU-H).

Thanks HPD. So perhaps they will race the 2.5 at the next round, in Austria on July 9th, for Alonso (and Stoffel if they are able). It's a power track.
Understood.

Hasegawa on McLaren.com said “For the next round in Austria, we are scheduled to bring our updated Spec 3 PU for both cars following the successful test here in Azerbaijan. In the meantime, we will continue our development with our best efforts in order to continue closing the gap.”

So I don't understand where people are getting this 2.5 story from all the time. Honda itself talks about Spec 3, not Spec 2.5.

[etusch]

Higher revs gives you a disadvantage, not an advantage

Just because of fuel and fuel flow restrictions. Because of them high revs not so logical. High revs could give more driveability, higher electric gaining both mgus and maybe this kind of design gives faster reving engine

You’re applying natural aspirated engine facts to turbo charged PU’s, doesn’t work like that. If there is any correlation between RPM and drivability, its from the compressor and the amount of boost. This is kept high by the H-unit plus with the K-unit, drivability is probability even better and more direct then a high revving V12.

I said drivability because of torque. I thought that less torque let driver to use accelerator earlier.
Drivers got used now ( I think). they were spinning more first turbo year at turn exits. Maybe new drivers still strugling with that

[MrPotatoHead]

Just because of fuel and fuel flow restrictions. Because of them high revs not so logical. High revs could give more driveability, higher electric gaining both mgus and maybe this kind of design gives faster reving engine

You’re applying natural aspirated engine facts to turbo charged PU’s, doesn’t work like that. If there is any correlation between RPM and drivability, its from the compressor and the amount of boost. This is kept high by the H-unit plus with the K-unit, drivability is probability even better and more direct then a high revving V12.

I said drivability because of torque. I thought that less torque let driver to use accelerator earlier.
Drivers got used now ( I think) they were spinning more first turbo year at turn exits. Maybe new drivers still strugling with that

Take a moment to think about the gearing and the torque at the tire.

[Andres125sx]

So I don't understand where people are getting this 2.5 story from all the time. Honda itself talks about Spec 3, not Spec 2.5.

Hasegawa said the PU they tested in Baku is spec 3.0, but he also said it´s not the complete spec 3.0 but only part of it, that´s the reason here in F1T people talk about spec 2.5

But now I don´t know if the PU they will use in Austria is the complete spec 3.0 or it´s the same they tested in Baku and people here call spec 2.5, as Hasegawa call it spec 3.0 even if it´s only part of it so, when he says both drivers will use spec 3.0 in Austria is that the complete spec 3.0 or only those parts they tested in Baku?

[PlatinumZealot]

Hasegawa on McLaren.com said “For the next round in Austria, we are scheduled to bring our updated Spec 3 PU for both cars following the successful test here in Azerbaijan. In the meantime, we will continue our development with our best efforts in order to continue closing the gap.”

So I don't understand where people are getting this 2.5 story from all the time. Honda itself talks about Spec 3, not Spec 2.5.

It could be "manager talk." Managers are notorious for skimping on the details and calling things whatever they want. Maybe Managers refer it it as Spec 3 for keeping up appearances, but suppose it was only a spec 2.5 to the engineers?

[BrunoH]

dont care.. calling it spec2.5 or 3, and the next big update calling it 3.5 or 4.0... does not make more power....

what i care is.. whats in the update.. what issues does it solve, how much hp gain.. etc..

[loner]

Higher revs gives you a disadvantage, not an advantage

well if Wazari hints are kinda reliable thats what i feel is the final target for Honda, going head to head with Mercedes but with more 1000 rpm while using the same amount of fuel like Mercedes
and they set 2018 season for this target it was never meant to be in 2017 both Mclaren and Alonso already know that , check Hasegawa quotes about 2018.
what we are seeing now in 2017 is making the PU ready for 2018.

[j.yank]

They also changed their downforce levels on Saturday.

Compare Alonso with Vandoorne in the race. I understand that Alonso is superior but such difference cannot be attributed only to his driving skills.

Yeah, they can. Obviously. Anyone can have a hot weekend, everyone can have a bad weekend.

If you want, compare Stoffel to me. He thrashes me. It doesn't mean it's because my kart is worse and his is better. He's just a better driver, especially when it comes to running on a track I'm new at, he's been to before, and in any case he's been to umpteen new tracks in the past.

Alonso is looking for his first win in the tenth different type of chassis he's won in, in the 17th type of car.
Stoffel is looking for his first win in the second type of chassis he's driven.

On another point, according to the FIA technical reports, both drivers fitted new engines this weekend. I find this odd because the reportage is that only Alonso had the new spec for Friday, and neither of them had it for the race.

I haven't seen all of the weekend stuff yet, did Stoffel have a breakdown?

It seems that none bother to look at the actual numbers: http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-o ... ication-30

Maximum speeds:
First sector: Alonso (second the best): 222.4 km/h; Vandoorne (11th): 208.7 km/h
Second sector: Alonso ( 5th): 221.8 km/h; Vandoorne (11th): 217.2 km/h
Third sector: Alonso ( 5th): 350.1 km/h; Vandoorne (16th): 340.2 km/h

I guess that when it comes to speed at straight line the driver skills don't matter too much. Can some one explain such differences as these above? Don't get me wrong: I am fan of Alonso.

[daren_p]

Compare Alonso with Vandoorne in the race. I understand that Alonso is superior but such difference cannot be attributed only to his driving skills.

Yeah, they can. Obviously. Anyone can have a hot weekend, everyone can have a bad weekend.

If you want, compare Stoffel to me. He thrashes me. It doesn't mean it's because my kart is worse and his is better. He's just a better driver, especially when it comes to running on a track I'm new at, he's been to before, and in any case he's been to umpteen new tracks in the past.

Alonso is looking for his first win in the tenth different type of chassis he's won in, in the 17th type of car.
Stoffel is looking for his first win in the second type of chassis he's driven.

On another point, according to the FIA technical reports, both drivers fitted new engines this weekend. I find this odd because the reportage is that only Alonso had the new spec for Friday, and neither of them had it for the race.

I haven't seen all of the weekend stuff yet, did Stoffel have a breakdown?

It seems that none bother to look at the actual numbers: http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-o ... ication-30

Maximum speeds:
First sector: Alonso (second the best): 222.4 km/h; Vandoorne (11th): 208.7 km/h
Second sector: Alonso ( 5th): 221.8 km/h; Vandoorne (11th): 217.2 km/h
Third sector: Alonso ( 5th): 350.1 km/h; Vandoorne (16th): 340.2 km/h

I guess that when it comes to speed at straight line the driver skills don't matter too much. Can some one explain such differences as these above? Don't get me wrong: I am fan of Alonso.

This post really shouldn't be in the pu thread, but if you are talking about data from the race, Alonso was doing a fast lap followed by a slow/recharge lap, etc, so not an accurate representation of trap speeds.

[j.yank]

Yeah, they can. Obviously. Anyone can have a hot weekend, everyone can have a bad weekend.

If you want, compare Stoffel to me. He thrashes me. It doesn't mean it's because my kart is worse and his is better. He's just a better driver, especially when it comes to running on a track I'm new at, he's been to before, and in any case he's been to umpteen new tracks in the past.

Alonso is looking for his first win in the tenth different type of chassis he's won in, in the 17th type of car.
Stoffel is looking for his first win in the second type of chassis he's driven.

On another point, according to the FIA technical reports, both drivers fitted new engines this weekend. I find this odd because the reportage is that only Alonso had the new spec for Friday, and neither of them had it for the race.

I haven't seen all of the weekend stuff yet, did Stoffel have a breakdown?

It seems that none bother to look at the actual numbers: http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-o ... ication-30

Maximum speeds:
First sector: Alonso (second the best): 222.4 km/h; Vandoorne (11th): 208.7 km/h
Second sector: Alonso ( 5th): 221.8 km/h; Vandoorne (11th): 217.2 km/h
Third sector: Alonso ( 5th): 350.1 km/h; Vandoorne (16th): 340.2 km/h

I guess that when it comes to speed at straight line the driver skills don't matter too much. Can some one explain such differences as these above? Don't get me wrong: I am fan of Alonso.

This post really shouldn't be in the pu thread, but if you are talking about data from the race, Alonso was doing a fast lap followed by a slow/recharge lap, etc, so not an accurate representation of trap speeds.

I am discussing whether they ran the same spec engine and what are the possible differences between these specs (if any). Both drivers should follow the same pattern of slow/fast laps, so this cannot explain the differences. Try something else.

[PhillipM]

well if Wazari hints are kinda reliable thats what i feel is the final target for Honda, going head to head with Mercedes but with more 1000 rpm while using the same amount of fuel like Mercedes

And why would that be an advantage? You'd make less power for the same fuel use.

[bigblue]

In response to the question about Alonso's top speeds : Alonso got bored at the end and started playing around; lap at Stroll pace, then 4-5 sec slower than those around him, another fast, another slow ... don't think Stoffel was in any position to do that as he was chasing Saubers. I'm guessing (don't know for sure) that those speeds came from those laps.

[j.yank]

In response to the question about Alonso's top speeds : Alonso got bored at the end and started playing around; lap at Stroll pace, then 4-5 sec slower than those around him, another fast, another slow ... don't think Stoffel was in any position to do that as he was chasing Saubers. I'm guessing (don't know for sure) that those speeds came from those laps.

Yes, this could be, but at this time Sainz was well ahead and he cannot assist Alonso with towing effect for 350 km/h. At the same time Vandoorne was on the back of Wherlein.

[ArcticWolfie]

dont care.. calling it spec2.5 or 3, and the next big update calling it 3.5 or 4.0... does not make more power....

what i care is.. whats in the update.. what issues does it solve, how much hp gain.. etc..

The speed gain was about 25kph in Baku when Alonso was testing the new engine (before putting a fastlap). I remember the topspeed of Vandoorne was about 311 and Alonso's about 326kph (without tow).

Don't pin me on this because can't find the numbers atm...

[Rudex]

fP2 Alonso was running with the low DF rear wing. Vandoorne no!. That is the cause of speed trap diferences.

Even, Hasegawa said Alonso stopped the car just before to push best lap in FP2, so He didnt push the new PU.