KERS usage in Austraila

[dp35]

Interesting discussion.

I thought I heard on the practice or quali broadcast that the rules state that KERS can only be used at speeds above 100kph. Is that true?

[epitaf]

Interesting discussion.

I thought I heard on the practice or quali broadcast that the rules state that KERS can only be used at speeds above 100kph. Is that true?

I've also heard this very often too..
Could be a rule to prevent accidents off the start?
or it could be an estimation based off the maximum amount of traction a car can put down without the wheels spinning, ie after 100kph the driver is full throttle so KERS will help?

[Dukeage]

The rules don't mention it, but James Allen did in his blog. I'd be inclined to say it's legal off the line, supposedly it gives you two rows. I would want to see it used before I regularly use that estimate, it could be rather interesting tomorrow - it could a soviet-style job creation scheme for the carbon fibre industry but the McLarens really could improve at the start by giving the KERS a bit of well.

It would be better to comment after we have seen it used, but if it is the case that the limiting factor is the energy/power limit rather than the units themselves, could it be considered to bump it up for 2010 or possibly for the second half of the season to make it a little more worth doing?

The battery graphic that is on one of the Ferraris ought to be used on all KERS cars, although when Williams get their KERS in a flywheel graphic might be needed instead

[natef1]

Can anyone tell me what the weird noise is you hear when with the onboard camera? It's like the revs go right down then jump right back up. The first time I heard it was with Sebastien Buemi's first proper lap, and Anthony Davidson said he thought it sounded like downshifted too early. But this isn't the case since it's happening to everyone.

Then Martin Brundle said something about being able to hear KERS and the jump in revs. I wasn't sure what he was talking about so I guessed it was this sound, but then we saw the graphic with Kimi onboard, and the noise was heard when KERS was not active, and you can hear it on the non-KERS cars.

I'm assuming it's just a camera sound problem, not the cars themselves. But just to be sure, anyone?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but i wonder if there are further restrictions on its usage during quali. It seems to me that they can actually use it twice per lap, first to gather more speed down the straight just before starting the lap, and then during the lap itself

You can press the button as many time as you want, but KERS will only deploy for 667 secs per lap... it is the same in qual as in race.

I think what alelanza was describing was using KERS to get the best possible hot lap. Drivers could use KERS out of the last corner in Oz towards the start finish line just before starting their hot lap. Then as they cross the line to start that hot lap they get another top up of KERS for use during the hot lap.

[Tech_Racer]

Drivers could use KERS out of the last corner in Oz towards the start finish line just before starting their hot lap. Then as they cross the line to start that hot lap they get another top up of KERS for use during the hot lap.

That's an interesting point. Usage during qualification will be different. Maximum KERS between corner 16 (last corner) and the start/finish line. That means starting the lap with less than 100% capacity. How many braking zones will it take to recharge KERS? Will the charge phase going into corner 1 be sufficient for a boost out of corner 2?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Haha yeah we have to be careful here, I was talking about a top up of KERS allowance which I think you understood. We also need to considered stored energy, so yes of course if a driver used KERS out of the last corner on his out lap he would get a fresh allowance when he crossed the start/finish line but obviously he would have spent some of the energy stored in the batteries/flywheel.

[Conceptual]

I don't think that there is a limit to the amount of energy stored, just a limit on how much can be used and for how long.

And increasing the allowable usage would once again screw the non-KERS teams, as they do not use it on a power/weight ratio, so the unfair advantage with a mid season change would be rather unfair I think...

[i70q7m7ghw]

No no, obviously there is a finite amount of storage. If they blast the KERS out of the final corner on an outlap they would eat in to a fully charged system so even though they would start the hot lap with a full KERS-time allowance, they would be starting the lap with a half empty batteries.

[ben_watkins]

This from the press conference.. looks like we're right, the drivers are using KERS in small bursts around the track coming out of corners, as that's what their engineers have told them..

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ce_fri.pdf

Q: (James Allen – Financial Times) For Fernando and Lewis, the two drivers using KERS
here, is it simply a case of using it in one place on the track or have you been
experimenting today with perhaps using it out of some corners and trying different things
with it and if so, would you be able to share some of your discoveries?

LH: I don’t think it’s rocket science. It’s the same for all of us, we use it as much as we can and we
have 400 kilojoules, around six and a half seconds, I guess, to use over a lap, so you generally try
to use two seconds or a second a time out of every corner if you can use it but you have to spread
it out throughout the lap.

FA: Same. Obviously for optimum lap time normally we follow the instructions of our team, our
engineers which is to use a little bit of KERS every place they tell you. But we still have the
capacity or the possibility of using all the KERS in one place but that will be maybe more in a race
situation if you are fighting with someone, if you really want to attack in one manoeuvre, try to
overtake him. Maybe you save all the 400 kilojoules for one time but this is something that we will
discover in the race for the first time because in testing it’s different and it will be the first time that
we race with KERS obviously and it will be a new experience for everybody

[ISLAMATRON]

FA: Same. Obviously for optimum lap time normally we follow the instructions of our team, our engineers which is to use a little bit of KERS every place they tell you. But we still have the capacity or the possibility of using all the KERS in one place but that will be maybe more in a race situation if you are fighting with someone, if you really want to attack in one manoeuvre, try to overtake him. Maybe you save all the 400 kilojoules for one time but this is something that we will discover in the race for the first time because in testing it’s different and it will be the first time that we race with KERS obviously and it will be a new experience for everybody

Seems like they do have the battery capacity for 1 full power 6.67sec burst per lap.

Asshole way for Lou to start to answer that question though.

[Tech_Racer]

This from the press conference.. looks like we're right, the drivers are using KERS in small bursts around the track coming out of corners, as that's what their engineers have told them..

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ce_fri.pdf

Q: (James Allen – Financial Times) For Fernando and Lewis, the two drivers using KERS
here, is it simply a case of using it in one place on the track or have you been
experimenting today with perhaps using it out of some corners and trying different things
with it and if so, would you be able to share some of your discoveries?

LH: I don’t think it’s rocket science. It’s the same for all of us, we use it as much as we can and we
have 400 kilojoules, around six and a half seconds, I guess, to use over a lap, so you generally try
to use two seconds or a second a time out of every corner if you can use it but you have to spread
it out throughout the lap.

FA: Same. Obviously for optimum lap time normally we follow the instructions of our team, our
engineers which is to use a little bit of KERS every place they tell you. But we still have the
capacity or the possibility of using all the KERS in one place but that will be maybe more in a race
situation if you are fighting with someone, if you really want to attack in one manoeuvre, try to
overtake him. Maybe you save all the 400 kilojoules for one time but this is something that we will
discover in the race for the first time because in testing it’s different and it will be the first time that
we race with KERS obviously and it will be a new experience for everybody

Great information. There are two different limits to keep mind. The maximum storage capacity of the system is limited to 300kJ but the maximum that can be used per lap is 400kJ. Because KERS can be recharged at each corner, the most efficient use might be to charge the system going into each corner and the use the boost as soon as traction is no longer the limiting factor in acceleration.

Alonso's suggestion of saving the 400kJ for one boost is not possible due to the 300kJ maximum storage capacity of the system.

Using short boost of 2.5 seconds means that the system only requires a maximum capacity of 150kJ (60 kW is the maximum output power). A lower maximum capacity means less *heavy* batteries.

[ISLAMATRON]

The maximum storage capacity of the system is limited to 300kJ

Where do you get this info from? I have not come upon it.

5.2.2 With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.


This rule does not refer to KERS.

[alelanza]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but i wonder if there are further restrictions on its usage during quali. It seems to me that they can actually use it twice per lap, first to gather more speed down the straight just before starting the lap, and then during the lap itself

You can press the button as many time as you want, but KERS will only deploy for 667 secs per lap... it is the same in qual as in race.

I think what alelanza was describing was using KERS to get the best possible hot lap. Drivers could use KERS out of the last corner in Oz towards the start finish line just before starting their hot lap. Then as they cross the line to start that hot lap they get another top up of KERS for use during the hot lap.

Exactly, so a quali lap would have 2x400 kJ in it

It would be better to comment after we have seen it used, but if it is the case that the limiting factor is the energy/power limit rather than the units themselves, could it be considered to bump it up for 2010 or possibly for the second half of the season to make it a little more worth doing?

I'm pretty sure rules stipulate an increase in allowable amount of energy released, off the top of my head it happens in 2012, but you may wanna google that for certainty. I know Williams made a big deal of their system being ready for that w/o any design changes.

I don't think that there is a limit to the amount of energy stored

Maybe not in the rules, but design wise there should be, being that it would mean a heavier battery with all the consequences we're aware of.

If efficiency is anywhere decent I'd be surprised if first corner braking can't fully charge 400 kJ right away

[hollus]

Hi guys! First post for me.
This with the KERS strategies is all very interesting. I looks like the most efficient use over any lap is many times under acceleration, on qualifying a slight modification of it due to the use before the lap starts, in the race it will be good to have the 6.67 second burst to pass somebody as long as you were fast enough to get behind while not using the KERS.
I can see two extreme strategies working, one would be designing it with capacity for only about one second. This still allows to maximize the acceleration in small bursts, but minimizes the number of batteries necessary. In the other extreme, if the storage capacity was twice the allowed per lap, in circuits with a long finish straight, one could use 6.67 seconds before the finish line and 6.67 after the start line, although I don't know if any track meets that criteria. I can see Williams getting there towards the end of the season. And of course there are lots of possibilities in between.
The point I wanted to make though is that with all the criticism over KERS, that is exactly what the rule intended to achieve. A competition between designs, including at the level of design philosophy (higher storage capacity in a flywheel) and technical implementation (better battery materials). The best designs will provide advantages, be copied by the others and then all will look for advantages in new ways. My thumbs up for it, and we'll see how it is used in the race.