2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[Shrieker]

He will have to move over for Lewis.

I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.

[SiLo]

He will have to move over for Lewis.

I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.

I think you vastly underestimate the character of Valterri Bottas.

[El Scorchio]

He will have to move over for Lewis.

I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.

In which case, I'd imagine they'll just start holding him in the pits to clear Hamilton past him if they absolutely have to. Would be a sad state of affairs if it came to that, and I can't see it. I'm sure they'll give him a win if they get the opportunity.

[Shrieker]

He will have to move over for Lewis.

I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.

I think you vastly underestimate the character of Valterri Bottas.

I mean, what better way to judge character, than to go by someone's actions. He was told to abort fl attempt at Zandvoort and refused, forcing Hamilton to pit. That removed any chance of winning the race for Lewis, in case something happened to Max a la Silverstone 2020.

[NathanOlder]

I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.

I think you vastly underestimate the character of Valterri Bottas.

I mean, what better way to judge character, than to go by someone's actions. He was told to abort fl attempt at Zandvoort and refused, forcing Hamilton to pit. That removed any chance of winning the race for Lewis, in case something happened to Max a la Silverstone 2020.

He did abort, He backed off in the last sector, he lost nearly 1 second in Sector 3 compared to the lap before on his outlap.

His out lap had a S3 of 22.2 , his fastest lap had a S3 of 23.0 . His following lap had a S3 of 22.3.

He just was so fast in S1 and S2, then he backed off in S3. In such a small sector losing nearly 1 second shows how much he backed off.

On Lewis' fastest lap he was equal to Bottas in S1. He was 4 tenths faster in S2 and he was 1.1 seconds faster than Bottas in S3.

Fastest lap
Bottas --------S1- 24.714 ---- S2 - 24.792 ------ S3 - 23.043
Hamilton -----S1- 24.776 ---- S2 - 24.328 ------ S3 - 21.993


Looking at the sectors and even the mini sectors its clear Bottas backed off in S3 end of. He didn't go against the team, he did what was asked, Looking at the middle sector also he wasn't pushing flat out, 4 tenths slower than Lewis was not a true reflection of his pace. He just still took fastest lap as he had such a tyre advantage compared to the current fastest lap at the time.

[Shrieker]

The drivers have the delta on their wheels. I have a hard time believing he didn't know exactly how quick he was lapping. In light of the info you posted, maybe it's worth giving him the benefit of the doubt tho.

[Marty_Y]

The drivers have the delta on their wheels. I have a hard time believing he didn't know exactly how quick he was lapping. In light of the info you posted, maybe it's worth giving him the benefit of the doubt tho.

NathanOlder is absolutely correct, he wasn't trying for fastest lap, he was just quick because of the pace advantage of his soft tyres. After he received the team radio message he backed off even more in the last sector.

And as pointed out by the sector times posted by Nathan, when Lewis was on equal tyres he was able to go 1.5 seconds faster with relative ease which shows how much Bottas had backed off.

[Gillian]

He will have to move over for Lewis.

I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.

In which case, I'd imagine they'll just start holding him in the pits to clear Hamilton past him if they absolutely have to. Would be a sad state of affairs if it came to that, and I can't see it. I'm sure they'll give him a win if they get the opportunity.

This already happened in Zandvoort. They pitted him so he would not be in the way of Hamilton. They even told him that's why (check clip below). Not literally what you are saying but still the same effect because he did not need to stop yet at that moment nor did he got the chance to drive as fast as he could (as in the team did not want him to and he obliged).

I don't blame them perse. He took his time on occasion to let Hamilton passed so they are not taking a risk anymore. Bottas won't be winning the WDC against Verstappen so backing Hamilton who can is the right choice.

[Gillian]

And on a personal note... I only recently decided to join the conversation here but I have reading everything since about 2010. So while I am new to you guys, you guys are not to me perse...

There where some comments in the race thread about the new people and I hope those where not pointed at me. I have been following F1 my entire life and I rate Hamilton extremely high. He and Alonso have been the best since Schumacher and at this moment I feel Hamilton and Verstappen are the absolute best.

I'm posting this here because I know a lot of BS was said about Hamilton for a long time, even on this forum. But now the same kind of nonsense is being said about Verstappen. Unfortunately some "fans" like to fuel the fire by attacking Hamilton every chance they get. And because of that I feel like Verstappen is getting more attacked to, just to balance it out.

Its a shame really.

[ringo]

I do not think the attacks at Verstappen are personal attacks or outside of his driving. The attacks on LH are stemming from a deep and longstanding hatred. It's a bit different. I think anyone critical of Max today is not looking to have a life long grudge against him. If his driving and attitude improves I am sure he will have more support. Aslo his team's culture and their leadership aren't the most likable bunch.

Anyhow, I wanted to suggest that Hamilton goes well enough in Sochi to get pole. Also fast enough if he doesn't get pole to overtake. I am not worried about team orders coming into play.
It is best for them to not take any engine penalties at the next race. Finishing ahead of Max with both cars will be the best result. All the better if there are Mclarens in-between.

This fight may go down to the wire. It's difficult seeing Lewis build a 26 point gap down to the last race. Worse if there are any more of those silly sprint races.
I would love for him to get in a purple patch and get a 30 point lead before the last race however.

[Marty_Y]

It seems it is toxic at all levels, from the top down.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-ma ... s-injured/

Marko: ‘A show was put on that poor Hamilton is injured’
Date published: September 15 2021 - Michelle Foster


Helmut Marko isn’t holding back, saying negative stories about Max Verstappen have been created by Mercedes, along with a “show” that Lewis Hamilton is injured

[dans79]

It seems it is toxic at all levels, from the top down.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-ma ... s-injured/

Marko: ‘A show was put on that poor Hamilton is injured’
Date published: September 15 2021 - Michelle Foster


Helmut Marko isn’t holding back, saying negative stories about Max Verstappen have been created by Mercedes, along with a “show” that Lewis Hamilton is injured

Someone should ask him about the show he put on post silverstone.

[El Scorchio]

I don't think that's gonna happen. This may very well be his last chance to win an F1 race. And look at what happened at Zandvoort.

In which case, I'd imagine they'll just start holding him in the pits to clear Hamilton past him if they absolutely have to. Would be a sad state of affairs if it came to that, and I can't see it. I'm sure they'll give him a win if they get the opportunity.

This already happened in Zandvoort. They pitted him so he would not be in the way of Hamilton. They even told him that's why (check clip below). Not literally what you are saying but still the same effect because he did not need to stop yet at that moment nor did he got the chance to drive as fast as he could (as in the team did not want him to and he obliged).

I don't blame them perse. He took his time on occasion to let Hamilton passed so they are not taking a risk anymore. Bottas won't be winning the WDC against Verstappen so backing Hamilton who can is the right choice.

It wasn't quite the same as what I had in mind (a situation where Bottas is ahead on the road in a race and refuses to yield the position, which I would find quite unlikely to happen) but yes, they did clear Bottas preemptively out of the pit window so Hamilton could have a comfortable run at fastest lap at the end of the race and to safeguard the point.

I think if Bottas was really not playing a team game then he would have simply refused to come into the pits, though.

[El Scorchio]

It seems it is toxic at all levels, from the top down.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-ma ... s-injured/

Marko: ‘A show was put on that poor Hamilton is injured’
Date published: September 15 2021 - Michelle Foster


Helmut Marko isn’t holding back, saying negative stories about Max Verstappen have been created by Mercedes, along with a “show” that Lewis Hamilton is injured

Someone should ask him about the show he put on post silverstone.

Yes exactly. Race ban, legal action, right to appeal, blah blah. Shameless two facedness.

[Gillian]

I totally agree with you guys about Marko/Horner. The only thing I would ask is to see them separate from Verstappen. Verstappen is not like them at all. And I personally see a lot of similarities between Hamiltons early days and Verstappens. But that's my personal opinion.

I never liked Red Bull or their management but I'm also not really impressed with Mercedes reaction to their competitiveness. Hamilton and Verstappen are both fantastic drivers. Don't forget how young Verstappen is btw. Pretty similar to when Hamilton just came in to F1

Anyway I will leave it at that then. I hope when I say something stupid or you don't agree with that you will know I am not a die hard fan of any driver and try to be neutral. Feel free to address me personally or DM if you think I am wrong.

Thank you.