2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Mogster
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Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 14:02

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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When Hamilton pitted it looked like the wrong call, then it became evident it was raining very hard on certain parts of the track. It’s easy to beat up Norris but leading is the worst place to make these decisions from. Maybe this will make him listen to the team more.

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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So all this chat about it being totally Max's call and a stroke of genius is a load of nonsense then.

DChemTech
DChemTech
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Location: Delft, NL

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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bonjon1979 wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 11:22
So all this chat about it being totally Max's call and a stroke of genius is a load of nonsense then.
Of course. It was the right thing to do at that time, based on the available information. It was neither luck nor genius - it was simply competence.

piast9
piast9
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Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Manoah2u wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 01:43
(...)Norris far too many tried to shush his team in certain messages that actually were important.
When the team said he must come in to boldly go 'NO!' was just plain foolish, and he got served an extremely hard aftermath, which not only cost him, but the team valuable points.

his own stubbornness cost the TEAM important points and his own win in the end.
(...)
I disagree. The team did not tell him he must come in. He was told how many laps were left and that some cars were pitting for inters. Then he was ASKED: "What do you think of inters?" to which he replied "NO!". That was not an order. If the team knew the rain was going to get heavier they should have ordered him to pit, but they didn't.
Anyway, for sure it is a lesson for Norris.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Mogster wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 11:11
leading is the worst place to make these decisions from.
100%.
I find it incredibly harsh that so many people are ******** on Norris about yesterday.
Add to the fact he's never won a race, and this (hopefully not, though) could be the closest he ever gets. I don't blame him in the slightest for taking the risk to stay out. As soon as Hamilton went in from behind him, it was clear that it was his only shot at winning. It was the wrong choice with hindsight but c'est la vie.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Car inspections after the race are arbitrary? It is already the umpteenth time that Car #33 has been extensively checked.
And car #44? Only the weight has been checked, again.

After the qualification there was also a protest from a team agains Max. :shock:
Apparently they had not been properly informed that this rule does not apply in the event of rain.

Stewards decisions:

The Stewards confirm that Car 33 may start the race despite failing to set a qualifying time in Q1.
In accordance with Article 36.2 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations, because the Qualifying
Session was declared "wet" by the Race Director, Car 33 is entitled to start the race despite failing
to set a time in Q1. This does not require a decision of the Stewards.
The Car will be placed on the grid in accordance with Article 36.3 of the FIA Formula One Sporting
Regulations.
The Power of Dreams!

aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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bonjon1979 wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 11:22
So all this chat about it being totally Max's call and a stroke of genius is a load of nonsense then.
Yes, same as with Hamilton. It's the teams responsibility to provide all available information and make the call if necessary.

Norris lost his nerves and made a tough (wrong) call, because his engineer was wishy washy and didnt give him all the info.

Remember, the guy is 21, fighting for his first ever f1 win in an underdog car under extreme pressure from the reigning 7x wdc, extreme weather conditions, on worn hard tires in the last 5 laps of the gp and is left out to dry by his team to make the deciding once in a decade pit call all by himself within a few corners.

And then you have people ****ing on him after the race.

Imo, Mclaren dropped the ball here, after doing a great job in the first stint keeping their cool when the undercuts started.

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214270
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Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 18:49

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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NOR demeanour over the radio was poor. It was not conducive and a sensible exchange between driver and engineer failed to develop because of it.

That said there were 4 parties involved here: the two drivers and the two teams. NOR and HAM seemed to be aligned in thinking; however the Merc team were obviously keeping an eye on VER and valued covering off that move over the win, even though they wanted the top step. Team McL got a little too greedy and prioritised the win, instead of bagging good points.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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AnthonyG
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Joined: 03 Mar 2012, 13:16

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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The end of this race reminded me a lot Germany 2007, Spa 2008 or Sao Paolo 2008. Similar situation in the last laps and a very difficult call.
214270 wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 11:56
NOR demeanour over the radio was poor. It was not conducive and a sensible exchange between driver and engineer failed to develop because of it.
There is no time or need for a sensible exchange. Norris is focussed and makes this clear to the team.
The pitwall was not sure enough of their call for inters either, if they were, they would have forced Norris to pit.
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

Santozini
Santozini
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Joined: 27 Feb 2017, 10:47

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Wouter wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 11:37
Car inspections after the race are arbitrary? It is already the umpteenth time that Car #33 has been extensively checked.
And car #44? Only the weight has been checked, again.

After the qualification there was also a protest from a team agains Max. :shock:
Apparently they had not been properly informed that this rule does not apply in the event of rain.

Stewards decisions:

The Stewards confirm that Car 33 may start the race despite failing to set a qualifying time in Q1.
In accordance with Article 36.2 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations, because the Qualifying
Session was declared "wet" by the Race Director, Car 33 is entitled to start the race despite failing
to set a time in Q1. This does not require a decision of the Stewards.
The Car will be placed on the grid in accordance with Article 36.3 of the FIA Formula One Sporting
Regulations.
Maybe that's what Toto means by being "really aggressive" in fight against Red Bull...fighting on and off the track... :(

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... l/6676845/

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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bonjon1979 wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 11:22
So all this chat about it being totally Max's call and a stroke of genius is a load of nonsense then.
To be fair, Max did make his call. Not like it was a genius call, but he was helped by witnessing other drivers sliding off. Watch his onboard. He made an obvious decision from where he was on the track, but yes it was actually his decision I would say.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Toto was afraid that the new 4thPU from Monza not would finish this race, so Valtteri got a 5th PU.

Valtteri posted on his IG story a nice picture, how he thinks about all this.

https://sportsugar.com/valtteri-bottas- ... gp-issues/

Just after the race: https://www.instagram.com/stories/valtt ... 042285306/

Many people all over the world are proud of him, that het let the door wide open for Max.

Last edited by Wouter on 27 Sep 2021, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
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notsofast
notsofast
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Joined: 10 Oct 2012, 02:56

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Maybe Mercedes is using Bottas to try out a few different upgrades before they decide which one to give to Hamilton.

Santozini
Santozini
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Joined: 27 Feb 2017, 10:47

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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notsofast wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 14:30
Maybe Mercedes is using Bottas
I think that sums up pretty well his last 5 years. :D :D

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RZS10
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Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

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Max' car had to go through the extended (edit: standard) scrutineering for the second time this season out of 47 cars tested (Silverstone excluded as the document is not available) ... It's safe to say they did not check his wreck.
It's
8	Sainz
4	Alonso
3	Ricciardo
3	Vettel
3	Kimi
3	Gasly
3	Perez
3	Stroll
3	Yuki
2	Norris
2	Latifi
2	Leclerc
2	Ocon
2	Max
2	Russell
1	Lewis
1	Gio

10	Ferrari
6	Alpine
6	Aston
6	AT
5	McLaren
5	RBR
4	Alfa
4	Williams
1	Merc
The numbers for Max and RBR aren't out of the ordinary, if there's a team that is being singled out then it's Ferrari. Merc does stand out however, at least with the incomplete numbers.

Afaik it always goes to the stewards when a car does not set a time but it's a formality and no sign of any protest from another team ... that particular issue was discussed earlier in the thread.

It's quite far fetched to believe it's some sort of Merc influence on the FIA
Last edited by RZS10 on 27 Sep 2021, 18:49, edited 1 time in total.