2021 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Sep 24 - 26

[Mogster]

Since day 1 Bottas was doing what team requested. He received suboptimal strategy many times. He destroyed his engine while blocking Vettel. He was asked to drive slower so his (quicker) team could score fastest lap.
Every F1 driver is highly competitive and wants to become WDC, and Bottas was probably promised a shot when his time comes.
And his time never came.
So why would he block a faster car in a race that was ruined by his team!?

You make it seem like a team asking its driver to do something (that is completely normal) in the interest of the team is not allowed.

To add, Bottas started every season with equal opportunity to Hamilton and to force the team to play the team game with roles reversed. He wasn't ever able to score enough points to keep himself in WDC contention to the point where if the team was fighting a Ferrari or Red Bull driver, then it wasn't for the best interests of the team for him to not do what was requested, even if it meant putting the guy in the team who was actually in contention first.

What I find funny is that so many people only equate this behaviour with Mercedes and make a point of being salty about it or using it for petty argument, when it's clear that Ferrari and Red Bull (and other teams also) have both been doing this for years- often even without the caveat of the drivers both even having equal opportunity at the start of the season. Schumacher, Alonso (both in Ferrari days), Vettel (RBR and Ferrari) and Verstappen (aside from arguably when paired with Ricciardo) just to name a few have usually had their team mate as a clear support driver from race one of the season. Hamilton gets no more special treatment from his team than any of those guys either got or get from theirs, (ironically actually less so) and people act like he's the only one in the sport who does. It's laughable really.

Agree totally. Bottas has settled into the support driver role as he doesn’t qualify consistently in front of Hamilton and frequently lacks the race pace to fight for wins. End of.

[codetower]

Since day 1 Bottas was doing what team requested. He received suboptimal strategy many times. He destroyed his engine while blocking Vettel. He was asked to drive slower so his (quicker) team could score fastest lap.
Every F1 driver is highly competitive and wants to become WDC, and Bottas was probably promised a shot when his time comes.
And his time never came.
So why would he block a faster car in a race that was ruined by his team!?

You make it seem like a team asking its driver to do something (that is completely normal) in the interest of the team is not allowed.

To add, Bottas started every season with equal opportunity to Hamilton and to force the team to play the team game with roles reversed. He wasn't ever able to score enough points to keep himself in WDC contention to the point where if the team was fighting a Ferrari or Red Bull driver, then it wasn't for the best interests of the team for him to not do what was requested, even if it meant putting the guy in the team who was actually in contention first.

What I find funny is that so many people only equate this behaviour with Mercedes and make a point of being salty about it or using it for petty argument, when it's clear that Ferrari and Red Bull (and other teams also) have both been doing this for years- often even without the caveat of the drivers both even having equal opportunity at the start of the season. Schumacher, Alonso (both in Ferrari days), Vettel (RBR and Ferrari) and Verstappen (aside from arguably when paired with Ricciardo) just to name a few have usually had their team mate as a clear support driver from race one of the season. Hamilton gets no more special treatment from his team than any of those guys either got or get from theirs, (ironically actually less so) and people act like he's the only one in the sport who does. It's laughable really.

To be fair, there are people on both sides of the fence with their own arguments. The fact is, Mercedes have the right to ask Bottas to drive a certain way, to assist the leading driver, whatever. But then Bottas also has the right to say F-off... then, Mercedes also has the right to let him go and promote Russel.

At the end of the day, it's a business... they are all grown men capable of making their own decisions. I personally don't blame Bottas for being a little fed up and not wanting to play second fiddle anymore. And at the same time, I don't blame Mercedes from moving on.

I do hope Bottas does well at Alfa Romeo. I think he's a better driver than people give him credit for. He's been racing along side what many consider to be the greatest driver ever, I think it's a little unfair to expect Bottas to be as good. Verstappen's been making some drivers look like they don't belong in F1, Leclerc was making a 4 time champion look average. It happens.

[El Scorchio]

You make it seem like a team asking its driver to do something (that is completely normal) in the interest of the team is not allowed.

To add, Bottas started every season with equal opportunity to Hamilton and to force the team to play the team game with roles reversed. He wasn't ever able to score enough points to keep himself in WDC contention to the point where if the team was fighting a Ferrari or Red Bull driver, then it wasn't for the best interests of the team for him to not do what was requested, even if it meant putting the guy in the team who was actually in contention first.

What I find funny is that so many people only equate this behaviour with Mercedes and make a point of being salty about it or using it for petty argument, when it's clear that Ferrari and Red Bull (and other teams also) have both been doing this for years- often even without the caveat of the drivers both even having equal opportunity at the start of the season. Schumacher, Alonso (both in Ferrari days), Vettel (RBR and Ferrari) and Verstappen (aside from arguably when paired with Ricciardo) just to name a few have usually had their team mate as a clear support driver from race one of the season. Hamilton gets no more special treatment from his team than any of those guys either got or get from theirs, (ironically actually less so) and people act like he's the only one in the sport who does. It's laughable really.

To be fair, there are people on both sides of the fence with their own arguments. The fact is, Mercedes have the right to ask Bottas to drive a certain way, to assist the leading driver, whatever. But then Bottas also has the right to say F-off... then, Mercedes also has the right to let him go and promote Russel.

At the end of the day, it's a business... they are all grown men capable of making their own decisions. I personally don't blame Bottas for being a little fed up and not wanting to play second fiddle anymore. And at the same time, I don't blame Mercedes from moving on.

I do hope Bottas does well at Alfa Romeo. I think he's a better driver than people give him credit for. He's been racing along side what many consider to be the greatest driver ever, I think it's a little unfair to expect Bottas to be as good. Verstappen's been making some drivers look like they don't belong in F1, Leclerc was making a 4 time champion look average. It happens.

Totally agree with you on the rights of both Bottas and the team, and that I think it's probably a good time for both to move on. The team need to think of their future and Bottas isn't it, and he needs a fresh start. He also seems like a good guy, so the freedom might do him well, a bit like how Vettel is a bit revitalised after leaving Ferrari.

[sosic2121]

Since day 1 Bottas was doing what team requested. He received suboptimal strategy many times. He destroyed his engine while blocking Vettel. He was asked to drive slower so his (quicker) team could score fastest lap.
Every F1 driver is highly competitive and wants to become WDC, and Bottas was probably promised a shot when his time comes.
And his time never came.
So why would he block a faster car in a race that was ruined by his team!?

You make it seem like a team asking its driver to do something (that is completely normal) in the interest of the team is not allowed.

It looked like max was faster and he was going to overtake him anyway, so in his personal interest was to loose as little time as possible, and he did that.
If his team expected that him would do something "extra" for them, they shouldn't have signed Russell.
All this time Bottas is waiting for his chance, and now it won't happen. Give him a break.

[foxmulder_ms]

By letting pass redbull so easily bottas showed weakness not strength. In my view he tarnished his name because his move indicates that he can do the same thing in other teams, too. He decreased his value.

All these will make the ultimate win more tasty.. RBs, ATs, Alonso... all fighting with Ham to death and now, even his "team mate" is opening the door to RB cars during the race

[AeroDynamic]

What’s weird is that when other greats had number 2 team mates, primarily to back up the number 1, people act shocked that this still exists. It’s the nature of the game. Unlike Ferrari, Mercedes afford equal opportunity to both drivers when a season starts. That’s fair enough. Why should a team that is here to win, peg back from maximising their lead driver in the championship? What is the point?

If you treat both drivers as equal number 1 at all stages of the season, well, you risk losing championships. McLaren were good at that - look at 2007, 2010. McLaren are known for it but it’s never helped them. I mean, you can run a team like that when your car is outright dominant, like 88, or 2014-2016. But instead. Championship where it’s tight with one or more other teams, it’s not the smart tragedy. You need to bet on one driver and support him in maximising all points for the team.

Bottas has been way too weak with Verstappen. It wasn’t just Sochi, it was Zandvoort too. When it’s max, he pretends he isn’t there, and nobody is passing him. When it’s George, like in Imola, he knows who’s around him, and fights for his position, even though he didn’t even need to because he was going to overtake George as the track conditions came back to him. He actually crashed with George doing that and took himself out of the championship early.

[Hammerfist]

What’s weird is that when other greats had number 2 team mates, primarily to back up the number 1, people act shocked that this still exists. It’s the nature of the game. Unlike Ferrari, Mercedes afford equal opportunity to both drivers when a season starts. That’s fair enough. Why should a team that is here to win, peg back from maximising their lead driver in the championship? What is the point?

If you treat both drivers as equal number 1 at all stages of the season, well, you risk losing championships. McLaren were good at that - look at 2007, 2010. McLaren are known for it but it’s never helped them. I mean, you can run a team like that when your car is outright dominant, like 88, or 2014-2016. But instead. Championship where it’s tight with one or more other teams, it’s not the smart tragedy. You need to bet on one driver and support him in maximising all points for the team.

Bottas has been way too weak with Verstappen. It wasn’t just Sochi, it was Zandvoort too. When it’s max, he pretends he isn’t there, and nobody is passing him. When it’s George, like in Imola, he knows who’s around him, and fights for his position, even though he didn’t even need to because he was going to overtake George as the track conditions came back to him. He actually crashed with George doing that and took himself out of the championship early.

You can also add France, when he could not even hold max up for more than one lap.

[ringo]

By letting pass redbull so easily bottas showed weakness not strength. In my view he tarnished his name because his move indicates that he can do the same thing in other teams, too. He decreased his value.

All these will make the ultimate win more tasty.. RBs, ATs, Alonso... all fighting with Ham to death and now, even his "team mate" is opening the door to RB cars during the race

Yes i notice this as well. It's the world vs LH in this order of how much effort they put in to spoil his race and support Max:
Max, Perez, Gasly, Alonso, Ricciardo, Bottas, Sainz, Vettel.

The only other drivers who i think would be neutral are the ones who see them selves a rivals to Max in the future or just dont care. They are:

Leclerc, Norris, Russel, Shumacher, Stroll, Mazepin,

Kimi doesnt care or Gio or Tsunoda.

The first set i wrote will for sure take it easy on Max and put more effort to block Lewis. Especially Alonso.

[PlatinumZealot]

Since day 1 Bottas was doing what team requested. He received suboptimal strategy many times. He destroyed his engine while blocking Vettel. He was asked to drive slower so his (quicker) team could score fastest lap.
Every F1 driver is highly competitive and wants to become WDC, and Bottas was probably promised a shot when his time comes.
And his time never came.
So why would he block a faster car in a race that was ruined by his team!?

You make it seem like a team asking its driver to do something (that is completely normal) in the interest of the team is not allowed.

It looked like max was faster and he was going to overtake him anyway, so in his personal interest was to loose as little time as possible, and he did that.
If his team expected that him would do something "extra" for them, they shouldn't have signed Russell.
All this time Bottas is waiting for his chance, and now it won't happen. Give him a break.

Nah. Bottas' Mercedes no way was weaker than a McLaren or an Alpha Tauri on the day.. No way. It was clear Bottas lined the road with gold for Max. I don't want to say it is passive sabotage.... But you could say it is insubordination.

It is now a question whether interenally Mercedes admonished him for it or turn a "seemingly" blind eye towards this specific incident and deal with Bottas later.

[Gillian]

By letting pass redbull so easily bottas showed weakness not strength. In my view he tarnished his name because his move indicates that he can do the same thing in other teams, too. He decreased his value.

All these will make the ultimate win more tasty.. RBs, ATs, Alonso... all fighting with Ham to death and now, even his "team mate" is opening the door to RB cars during the race

Yes i notice this as well. It's the world vs LH in this order of how much effort they put in to spoil his race and support Max:
Max, Perez, Gasly, Alonso, Ricciardo, Bottas, Sainz, Vettel.

The only other drivers who i think would be neutral are the ones who see them selves a rivals to Max in the future or just dont care. They are:

Leclerc, Norris, Russel, Shumacher, Stroll, Mazepin,

Kimi doesnt care or Gio or Tsunoda.

The first set i wrote will for sure take it easy on Max and put more effort to block Lewis. Especially Alonso.

You are posting this in the race thread where Alonso overtook Verstappen and was not going to give him an inch. So what do you base this on?

[nzjrs]

You make it seem like a team asking its driver to do something (that is completely normal) in the interest of the team is not allowed.

It looked like max was faster and he was going to overtake him anyway, so in his personal interest was to loose as little time as possible, and he did that.
If his team expected that him would do something "extra" for them, they shouldn't have signed Russell.
All this time Bottas is waiting for his chance, and now it won't happen. Give him a break.

Nah. Bottas' Mercedes no way was weaker than a McLaren or an Alpha Tauri on the day.. No way. It was clear Bottas lined the road with gold for Max. I don't want to say it is passive sabotage.... But you could say it is insubordination.

It is now a question whether interenally Mercedes admonished him for it or turn a "seemingly" blind eye towards this specific incident and deal with Bottas later.

Well he's already fired so I assume if they haven't structured his payment package with the correct incentives to disincentiveise this behaviour then that's a failure of imagination on Mercedes part.

[Mogster]

When has Bottas performed well in those sorts of situations though? His wins are mostly qualify well and drive cleanly from the front. He’s really fast over one lap but has never seemed to be a battler.

I’m not sure why people are surprised by this.

[ringo]

By letting pass redbull so easily bottas showed weakness not strength. In my view he tarnished his name because his move indicates that he can do the same thing in other teams, too. He decreased his value.

All these will make the ultimate win more tasty.. RBs, ATs, Alonso... all fighting with Ham to death and now, even his "team mate" is opening the door to RB cars during the race

Yes i notice this as well. It's the world vs LH in this order of how much effort they put in to spoil his race and support Max:
Max, Perez, Gasly, Alonso, Ricciardo, Bottas, Sainz, Vettel.

The only other drivers who i think would be neutral are the ones who see them selves a rivals to Max in the future or just dont care. They are:

Leclerc, Norris, Russel, Shumacher, Stroll, Mazepin,

Kimi doesnt care or Gio or Tsunoda.

The first set i wrote will for sure take it easy on Max and put more effort to block Lewis. Especially Alonso.

You are posting this in the race thread where Alonso overtook Verstappen and was not going to give him an inch. So what do you base this on?

He will not stay behind someone he can easily overtake. I am saying if he is defending he is very keen on giving LH a harder time than Max and is more likely to not race Max hard. In fact at no point in time has Alonso put up much fight against max.

[Gillian]

Yes i notice this as well. It's the world vs LH in this order of how much effort they put in to spoil his race and support Max:
Max, Perez, Gasly, Alonso, Ricciardo, Bottas, Sainz, Vettel.

The only other drivers who i think would be neutral are the ones who see them selves a rivals to Max in the future or just dont care. They are:

Leclerc, Norris, Russel, Shumacher, Stroll, Mazepin,

Kimi doesnt care or Gio or Tsunoda.

The first set i wrote will for sure take it easy on Max and put more effort to block Lewis. Especially Alonso.

You are posting this in the race thread where Alonso overtook Verstappen and was not going to give him an inch. So what do you base this on?

He will not stay behind someone he can easily overtake. I am saying if he is defending he is very keen on giving LH a harder time than Max and is more likely to not race Max hard. In fact at no point in time has Alonso put up much fight against max.

Okay I get what you mean now, thank you. Alonso did fight fierce against Hamilton but a win was on the line for the team in Hungary. I don't buy for a second that had anything to do with liking Verstappen and/or disliking Hamilton. If anything, I find Alonso has always been very respectful to Hamilton. And did we even ever see Verstappen fight Alonso? Genuine question because I can't remember.

[AeroDynamic]

Yes i notice this as well. It's the world vs LH in this order of how much effort they put in to spoil his race and support Max:
Max, Perez, Gasly, Alonso, Ricciardo, Bottas, Sainz, Vettel.

The only other drivers who i think would be neutral are the ones who see them selves a rivals to Max in the future or just dont care. They are:

Leclerc, Norris, Russel, Shumacher, Stroll, Mazepin,

Kimi doesnt care or Gio or Tsunoda.

The first set i wrote will for sure take it easy on Max and put more effort to block Lewis. Especially Alonso.

You are posting this in the race thread where Alonso overtook Verstappen and was not going to give him an inch. So what do you base this on?

He will not stay behind someone he can easily overtake. I am saying if he is defending he is very keen on giving LH a harder time than Max and is more likely to not race Max hard. In fact at no point in time has Alonso put up much fight against max.

We can only speculate what his other motivations are at times, but it is a legit one from him to say he was helping his team get the win. Which he could well be doing purely for that reason… but I’m doubtful of it being only that. Does he have an agenda to make it more difficult for Lewis in his title fight? Maybe. But it’s impossible to say if that’s more to do with wanting to see Lewis fail, or, just taking the opportunity to show what he can do against an F1 driver with a big profile like Hamilton, and Hungary was that opportunity. It could have been the same if it was Verstappen. Drivers who are winners with a big profile, are like a trophy for their competitors. “Look, I beat him, I out raced him, I am better” is certainly the kind of mindset drivers carry sometimes. So who knows what it was predominantly about, but I will be interested to see if Verstappen finds himself in a similar scenario that Hamilton found himself in with Fernando, and to see if Fernando does fight Max as hard. I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t. Max is a fan of Fernando, it’s clear, they have a tighter relationship than Lewis does with either of them.