2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[adrianjordan]

Even if Daniel left on his own. It does not change the fact that Redbull were not treating him equally and made no efforts to get the two best drivers they can in the same car. They are fine with one top driver. We can see even how they retained Perez. They get a long along well and Perez though hungry is very humble and wise. He wont challenge Max until he fully comes to grips with the car and the team backs him. And they will never back him. He may just be driving that redbull in 2023 and 2024 as well then retire from racing.
Max will have it easy for years.
I would love to see them give Norris a chance. Though mclaren may well be a top team next year.

Norris won't go there while Max is there. No top driver will.

It is obvious that RBR are focused on backing Max, just like they did with Seb. Not saying that's wrong or right, it's their choice and they're hardly the first team to do so. But it does mean that any driver with ambitions to be WDC won't risk going there while they have any other viable options.

[AeroDynamic]

Even if Daniel left on his own. It does not change the fact that Redbull were not treating him equally and made no efforts to get the two best drivers they can in the same car. They are fine with one top driver. We can see even how they retained Perez. They get a long along well and Perez though hungry is very humble and wise. He wont challenge Max until he fully comes to grips with the car and the team backs him. And they will never back him. He may just be driving that redbull in 2023 and 2024 as well then retire from racing.
Max will have it easy for years.
I would love to see them give Norris a chance. Though mclaren may well be a top team next year.

Norris won't go there while Max is there. No top driver will.

It is obvious that RBR are focused on backing Max, just like they did with Seb. Not saying that's wrong or right, it's their choice and they're hardly the first team to do so. But it does mean that any driver with ambitions to be WDC won't risk going there while they have any other viable options.

This. Nobody, not even Alonso, Hamilton, or any one, is going to have much of a chance of bettering Max at Red Bull. Unless the car has a broader window of accommodating driving approach, then it’s going to be tailor fitted. Franz Tost was talking about this recently, a lot of followers suspected this for some time:

"Max is the technical lead driver in the [Red Bull] team. That means he develops the car exactly the way he wants it. So it's possible that the second driver could have problems with that."

So does Verstappen have such a special driving style compared to other drivers in Formula 1?

"I don't want it to be a very specific driving style, but he has a unique feel for how to get the best out of the braking point, the turn-in point and then the apex. There are other drivers who can't handle a car built for Max as well. That's because they have a different driving style,"

Alonso. He read my mind. I got backlash for saying exactly the same thing. When Max and Alonso call it lucky, it’s fine. when I say it, it’s a problem

Fernando Alonso, Russian GP

“Some people took some risks, some people other risks, and we were unlucky, or the podium [finishers], let's say, were very lucky today, but in these conditions it's always a lottery.”

"[Lando] Norris did an amazing race, and just by luck he is not on the podium or his first ever win in Formula 1. So when it rains, it's just a very lucky factor.

“And I'm sad because when we are not competitive and we are P11 or P12, it never rains, so we never get lucky. And today that we are P3, today it just rained. So not sad. But definitely we are not very lucky.

“But every point we got this year is on merit, we never had any gifts this year. So I'm proud of every point that I took this year.”

[Sieper]

Even if Daniel left on his own. It does not change the fact that Redbull were not treating him equally and made no efforts to get the two best drivers they can in the same car. They are fine with one top driver. We can see even how they retained Perez. They get a long along well and Perez though hungry is very humble and wise. He wont challenge Max until he fully comes to grips with the car and the team backs him. And they will never back him. He may just be driving that redbull in 2023 and 2024 as well then retire from racing.
Max will have it easy for years.
I would love to see them give Norris a chance. Though mclaren may well be a top team next year.

Norris won't go there while Max is there. No top driver will.

It is obvious that RBR are focused on backing Max, just like they did with Seb. Not saying that's wrong or right, it's their choice and they're hardly the first team to do so. But it does mean that any driver with ambitions to be WDC won't risk going there while they have any other viable options.

This. Nobody, not even Alonso, Hamilton, or any one, is going to have much of a chance of bettering Max at Red Bull. Unless the car has a broader window of accommodating driving approach, then it’s going to be tailor fitted. Franz Tost was talking about this recently, a lot of followers suspected this for some time:

"Max is the technical lead driver in the [Red Bull] team. That means he develops the car exactly the way he wants it. So it's possible that the second driver could have problems with that."

So does Verstappen have such a special driving style compared to other drivers in Formula 1?

"I don't want it to be a very specific driving style, but he has a unique feel for how to get the best out of the braking point, the turn-in point and then the apex. There are other drivers who can't handle a car built for Max as well. That's because they have a different driving style,"

Alonso. He read my mind. I got backlash for saying exactly the same thing. When Max and Alonso call it lucky, it’s fine. when I say it, it’s a problem

Fernando Alonso, Russian GP

“Some people took some risks, some people other risks, and we were unlucky, or the podium [finishers], let's say, were very lucky today, but in these conditions it's always a lottery.”

"[Lando] Norris did an amazing race, and just by luck he is not on the podium or his first ever win in Formula 1. So when it rains, it's just a very lucky factor.

“And I'm sad because when we are not competitive and we are P11 or P12, it never rains, so we never get lucky. And today that we are P3, today it just rained. So not sad. But definitely we are not very lucky.

“But every point we got this year is on merit, we never had any gifts this year. So I'm proud of every point that I took this year.”

Because Max is not a bullshitter. When the rain came that was lucky factor. Like Max said. Rain in Q2 was very bad luck, and having an engine destroyed had nothing to do with luck. By the way. When it started to rain every driver could use that to get lucky.

[AeroDynamic]

Norris won't go there while Max is there. No top driver will.

It is obvious that RBR are focused on backing Max, just like they did with Seb. Not saying that's wrong or right, it's their choice and they're hardly the first team to do so. But it does mean that any driver with ambitions to be WDC won't risk going there while they have any other viable options.

This. Nobody, not even Alonso, Hamilton, or any one, is going to have much of a chance of bettering Max at Red Bull. Unless the car has a broader window of accommodating driving approach, then it’s going to be tailor fitted. Franz Tost was talking about this recently, a lot of followers suspected this for some time:

"Max is the technical lead driver in the [Red Bull] team. That means he develops the car exactly the way he wants it. So it's possible that the second driver could have problems with that."

So does Verstappen have such a special driving style compared to other drivers in Formula 1?

"I don't want it to be a very specific driving style, but he has a unique feel for how to get the best out of the braking point, the turn-in point and then the apex. There are other drivers who can't handle a car built for Max as well. That's because they have a different driving style,"

Alonso. He read my mind. I got backlash for saying exactly the same thing. When Max and Alonso call it lucky, it’s fine. when I say it, it’s a problem

Fernando Alonso, Russian GP

“Some people took some risks, some people other risks, and we were unlucky, or the podium [finishers], let's say, were very lucky today, but in these conditions it's always a lottery.”

"[Lando] Norris did an amazing race, and just by luck he is not on the podium or his first ever win in Formula 1. So when it rains, it's just a very lucky factor.

“And I'm sad because when we are not competitive and we are P11 or P12, it never rains, so we never get lucky. And today that we are P3, today it just rained. So not sad. But definitely we are not very lucky.

“But every point we got this year is on merit, we never had any gifts this year. So I'm proud of every point that I took this year.”

Because Max is not a bullshitter. When the rain came that was lucky factor. Like Max said. Rain in Q2 was very bad luck, and having an engine destroyed had nothing to do with luck. By the way. When it started to rain every driver could use that to get lucky.

It’s lucky for drivers to have free choice of tyres? Sorry, I forgot where I was. Max is only unlucky, anybody else is lucky.

The engine destroyed is unlucky, but like the saying goes, you make your own luck. If you have a racing incident, the outcome is of your own making; good or bad, it’s of your own making.sorry it didn’t work out for your driver that time.

[Sieper]

This. Nobody, not even Alonso, Hamilton, or any one, is going to have much of a chance of bettering Max at Red Bull. Unless the car has a broader window of accommodating driving approach, then it’s going to be tailor fitted. Franz Tost was talking about this recently, a lot of followers suspected this for some time:



Alonso. He read my mind. I got backlash for saying exactly the same thing. When Max and Alonso call it lucky, it’s fine. when I say it, it’s a problem

Because Max is not a bullshitter. When the rain came that was lucky factor. Like Max said. Rain in Q2 was very bad luck, and having an engine destroyed had nothing to do with luck. By the way. When it started to rain every driver could use that to get lucky.

It’s lucky for drivers to have free choice of tyres? Sorry, I forgot where I was. Max is only unlucky, anybody else is lucky.

The engine destroyed is unlucky, but like the saying goes, you make your own luck. If you have a racing incident, the outcome is of your own making; good or bad, it’s of your own making.sorry it didn’t work out for your driver that time.

Ofcourse it is peeeep if the one race you start from the back everybody has fresh tires. It is one of the basic concepts of current F1. Top10 has to start on used usually softer tires than 11-15, giving them (11-15) a small advantage in the race. In case it rains in Q2 this Ofcourse cannot be done, so everyone gets fresh rubber. And free choice. Also the top 10. Without the rain in Q2 Max wouldn’t have gotten stuck behind Ricciardo and Alonso as their used softs (to get into Q3) would have meant they pitted. Max would then have been on the tail of Lewis (or maybe Lewis himself likely wouldn’t have been stuck behind Ricciardo, meaning Max wouldn’t have been on his tail just yet and could have made his whites last longer and be on yellows for a shorter last stint. Max set the fastest laps once he despatched Leclerc.

All basic F1 101. If you really don’t understand the impact of the starting tire exception (in combination with being in the very back, and having to despatch 2 top drivers also) and even feel the need for roll eyes then I am afraid our conversation has reached its end.

Max already consoled in P7/P8 and was carefull all race, he did understand how the cards were dealt.

[AeroDynamic]

Because Max is not a bullshitter. When the rain came that was lucky factor. Like Max said. Rain in Q2 was very bad luck, and having an engine destroyed had nothing to do with luck. By the way. When it started to rain every driver could use that to get lucky.

It’s lucky for drivers to have free choice of tyres? Sorry, I forgot where I was. Max is only unlucky, anybody else is lucky.

The engine destroyed is unlucky, but like the saying goes, you make your own luck. If you have a racing incident, the outcome is of your own making; good or bad, it’s of your own making.sorry it didn’t work out for your driver that time.

Ofcourse it is peeeep if the one race you start from the back everybody has fresh tires. It is one of the basic concepts of current F1. Top10 has to start on used usually softer tires than 11-15, giving them (11-15) a small advantage in the race. In case it rains in Q2 this Ofcourse cannot be done, so everyone gets fresh rubber. And free choice. Also the top 10. Without the rain in Q2 Max wouldn’t have gotten stuck behind Ricciardo and Alonso as their used softs (to get into Q3) would have meant they pitted. Max would then have been on the tail of Lewis (or maybe Lewis himself likely wouldn’t have been stuck behind Ricciardo, meaning Max wouldn’t have been on his tail just yet and could have made his whites last longer and be on yellows for a shorter last stint. Max set the fastest laps once he despatched Leclerc.

All basic F1 101. If you really don’t understand the impact of the starting tire exception (in combination with being in the very back, and having to despatch 2 top drivers also) and even feel the need for roll eyes then I am afraid our conversation has reached its end.

Max already consoled in P7/P8 and was carefull all race, he did understand how the cards were dealt.

Your response sums up what Im getting at here. All you can talk about is max being unlucky. Unlucky this, unlucky that. Others were lucky. It’s grievance collecting when its going Max’s way, you cannot acknowledge it. You might as well just upvote and quote Mr. Spins comment. “Lewis has all the luck”

You don’t know how max would’ve done if he kept the tyre advantage he wanted to bank on. (Some terrible bad luck that is! ) his tyres degraded quicker than he expected, his own words. So he mismanaged his tyres by the time he gets to the top 10. The only way he’s tailing Lando and Lewis on the podium is when the rain disrupts the final laps, and, like in Alonso’s words, provides a lottery.

[etusch]

We will see how lucky that lucky fella

Where might Hamilton serve an engine grid penalty?

With seven races remaining in the 2021 F1 season, it's a big ask for Lewis Hamilton's engines to make it through the rest of the campaign without needing another one.

Given the reliability concerns that have crept in at Mercedes over the course of this season, it stands to reason that the team will opt to fit the W12 with a fresh engine before the end of the season to reduce the possibility of a failure deciding the championship for them. After all, this week was the fifth anniversary of Hamilton's infamous engine failure while comfortably leading the Malaysian Grand Prix - a hugely pivotal moment in that year's title chase.

While Hamilton denied that Mercedes are considering an engine swap over the Russian Grand Prix weekend, the team haven't ruled out the possibility outright. At the moment, Hamilton has just two engines in his pool. These are the units he started the season with (Bahrain up until Azerbaijan) and the unit introduced at the Belgian Grand Prix.

The unit introduced in Baku failed during practice for the Dutch Grand Prix, and is now out of his pool. With two reasonably high mileage engines available and seven races to go, logic would suggest a fresh engine, and soon, will be fitted.

Certainly, Red Bull Racing are working under the assumption that the Mercedes will need a fourth power unit.

"I hope that our information is correct," Helmut Marko told Sky Sports F1. "According to that, Lewis will have to change again."

Where can be ruled out?
It's reasonably safe to assume that the change won't be made at any of the final three races. This would mean Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi - simply because of how late they are in the season.

Changing that late in the season would mean running the risk of a badly timed failure with the existing engines, while also not fully utilizing the life of the fourth unit.

There's also the fact that Qatar and Saudi Arabia are completely unknown quantities, while no team still in with a shout of a championship is going to take a penalty at a potential championship showdown in Abu Dhabi.

Brazil is more likely than the aforementioned three, but also not hugely likely given that the circuit isn't a slam-dunk in terms of overtaking. The straight isn't straight, and the straight line speed clipping seen on the Mercedes at Monza could result in Hamilton finding it difficult to make his way through the field, given the difficulty of overtaking through the first and second sector of the lap.

The three most likely venues
If Mercedes are going to make the change, it's likely to happen sooner rather than later. This would suggest the next race in Turkey, or either the United States or Mexican Grand Prix.

Turkey is a venue where a driver can overtake reasonably comfortably, and it was Hamilton himself who initially made a name for himself in GP2 in 2006 with an eye-catching drive at Istanbul Park. Running a low downforce setup, Hamilton spun off early in the race and fell down to 19th place. Gathering himself back up, he fought his way back to finish in second place.

The United States is also a possibility, given the length of the back straight and Hamilton's prior successes at overtaking Nico Rosberg and Sebastian Vettel for race victories at the Circuit of the Americas. In 2018, Max Verstappen started the race from 18th on the grid and wound up in second place at the end after some great strategy decisions from Red Bull. A similar outcome for Hamilton would surely be regarded as a big win.

Mexico is also a track at which overtaking is a possibility thanks to the long main straight. Due to the high altitude, the teams can run higher downforce settings and still enjoy massive speeds into Turn 1. But, again, there is the worry that Mercedes' engine clipping problems could curtail a recovery drive, and see Hamilton get stuck behind someone as seen in Monza and Sochi.

The most likely scenario is that Mercedes will play it by ear, and have an engine on standby at all times. Should it appear as though Verstappen is unbeatable at any given track, they may elect for the change there and then in order to take their penalty at a track where it appears they might lose anyway.

Waiting for a bad qualifying result is also a possibility, or even waiting for news of a wet race that could introduce an element of chaos and, more importantly, the prospect of a Safety Car to negate the gap to the front.

It's a fascinating prospect and, given how successfully Red Bull managed to get through their penalty weekend, the pressure is now surely on Mercedes to respond just as well.

http://gptoday.com

[Curbstone]

It’s lucky for drivers to have free choice of tyres? Sorry, I forgot where I was. Max is only unlucky, anybody else is lucky.

The engine destroyed is unlucky, but like the saying goes, you make your own luck. If you have a racing incident, the outcome is of your own making; good or bad, it’s of your own making.sorry it didn’t work out for your driver that time.

You should stop calling Silverstone a racing incident, Lewis received a penalty for that. If you keep calling it a racing incident it kinda reveals your bias to Lewis.

[TNTHead]

<ignore mode off>
New people in this thread...

Unfortunately the recent posts derail in lucky-vs unlucky arguments. Couldn't we use our time better than this? I enjoy(ed) this forum/thread for insights and developments at RB, but the fun factor is diminishing with every visit.

<ignore mode on>

[SiLo]

Hoping Perez can have a good weekend and be up with Bottas, Max and Lewis at the front. I think we will have 2, 2-way fights which should make it really interesting that way.

[Wouter]

Five weeks ago! RBR did a requst at the FIA. They have finally got an answer!
The FIA didn't want to take a look at it!

Red Bulls Anfrage bei der FIA nach dem angeblichen Mercedes-Trick mit dem Kühlen des Plenums lief ins Leere.
"Das wurde abgeschmettert", heißt es aus Red Bull-Kreisen.

Translated from AMuS.
Red Bull's request to the FIA about the alleged Mercedes trick with cooling the plenum came to nothing.
"That was shot down." they say from Red Bull circles.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... lendspurt/

[AeroDynamic]

Teams these days should just focus on beating each other on the track. Illegal things should be policed, but banning legal technology to get your way back to the top is hardly a sport.

[adrianjordan]

Teams these days should just focus on beating each other on the track. Illegal things should be policed, but banning legal technology to get your way back to the top is hardly a sport.

Qyite often when they put in protests and the like, such as this, it is because they want to know whether something is permitted before trying it themselves.

I also assume you're new to the sport, because this sort of political wrangling has gone on for decades!!

[adrianjordan]

It’s lucky for drivers to have free choice of tyres? Sorry, I forgot where I was. Max is only unlucky, anybody else is lucky.

The engine destroyed is unlucky, but like the saying goes, you make your own luck. If you have a racing incident, the outcome is of your own making; good or bad, it’s of your own making.sorry it didn’t work out for your driver that time.

You should stop calling Silverstone a racing incident, Lewis received a penalty for that. If you keep calling it a racing incident it kinda reveals your bias to Lewis.

I disagree. I am a McLaren fan and yet I see it as a racing incident, as it must be said did a number of commentators and drivers at the time.

I subscribe to the belief that it WAS a racing incident and one that Max could have avoided at that. Doesn't make me a Lewis fan, nor does it mean I blame Max.

I think the stewards caved to the pressure to be seen to do something, which is why they gave Lewis a penalty.

I do wonder whether, had they not given Lewis a penalty at Silverstone, Max would still have gotten one at Monza.

Either way, I just want a clean, fair fight for the title. Of course I'd also settle for both drivers taking each other off at every remaining race and Lando coming through to take a surprise first title lol

[AeroDynamic]

Teams these days should just focus on beating each other on the track. Illegal things should be policed, but banning legal technology to get your way back to the top is hardly a sport.

Qyite often when they put in protests and the like, such as this, it is because they want to know whether something is permitted before trying it themselves.

I also assume you're new to the sport, because this sort of political wrangling has gone on for decades!!

I know. They still use this to manoeuvre the rules against legal technology though. Flexi wings, pit stops, engine modes, they were fine