2021 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbul Park, Oct 08 - 10

[nzjrs]

Very strange so far. Do I believe that RB is this far back and Ferrari are this fast?

Would be interesting if this is a real change in the competitive order.

[Just_a_fan]

Very strange so far. Do I believe that RB is this far back and Ferrari are this fast?

Would be interesting if this is a real change in the competitive order.

Half a tonne of sand involved. Red Bull will suddenly come good for qualifying. Max will win and lead by c.10 points.

[MV8]

The Ferrari's pace is real, only thing that can destroy the chances of a podium is the rain, the last data about Ferrari in rain are not good...

[nzjrs]

Very strange so far. Do I believe that RB is this far back and Ferrari are this fast?

Would be interesting if this is a real change in the competitive order.

Half a tonne of sand involved. Red Bull will suddenly come good for qualifying. Max will win and lead by c.10 points.

You could be right because RB sand here might be worth more here than at a track where MB hasn't chosen to take a grid drop that will affect their qualifying strategy?

[holeindalip]

Penalty should be taken in a circuit where overtaking is the easiest and also as early as possible. So Istanbul seems right..

OK, so what did Mercedes do exactly? Because they had two options, take penalties in Turkey/COTA (reasonable chances of victories) or take penalties in Mexico/Brazil (improbable win, but also tracks that allow overtaking).

So it seems to me that they didn't think that starting from the back in Turkey/COTA would result in a high-placed position, so they wouldn't minimise the loss of points to Verstappen.

But, also, it seems that they were not confident that #44 could reach Mexico with the same ICE, in order for them to pursue the -IMO- optimal strategy of taking all penalties to the non-winning event, at least the presumably non-winning event, that is.

So, they decided to split the renewal of components, thinking that starting 11th-13th is actually a good place to minimise the loss of points. If Verstappen doesn't win, and Hamilton end up one spot behind him, kudos to Mercedes, it worked.

Why do you think Mexico and Brazil are better for overtaking than turkey/cota?

[SiLo]

What I find odd, is that Perez seems to be closer to the front when Verstappen is complaining of understeer. I think this goes some way to explaining that the way the RB has been designed in recent years, which was very on the nose, really suits Vertsappen, but not many others have a similar style and can't cope with it.

[Starkblood80]

Very strange so far. Do I believe that RB is this far back and Ferrari are this fast?

Would be interesting if this is a real change in the competitive order.

Half a tonne of sand involved. Red Bull will suddenly come good for qualifying. Max will win and lead by c.10 points.

Do RB traditionally sandbag?

[Gillian]

Very strange so far. Do I believe that RB is this far back and Ferrari are this fast?

Would be interesting if this is a real change in the competitive order.

Half a tonne of sand involved. Red Bull will suddenly come good for qualifying. Max will win and lead by c.10 points.

Do RB traditionally sandbag?

Not traditionally I would say. But the engine was turned down for sure and Verstappen looked slow. Marko said they tried different setups on both cars and it didn't really work for Verstappen. The latter was complaining a lot and wasn't happy with the tires. Perez seemed much happier. I think it's a combination of factors and there's pace to be found for sure. Its only Friday ofcourse.

[El Scorchio]

What I find odd, is that Perez seems to be closer to the front when Verstappen is complaining of understeer. I think this goes some way to explaining that the way the RB has been designed in recent years, which was very on the nose, really suits Vertsappen, but not many others have a similar style and can't cope with it.

Could well be something in that. I think.

[zibby43]

Very strange so far. Do I believe that RB is this far back and Ferrari are this fast?

Would be interesting if this is a real change in the competitive order.

Half a tonne of sand involved. Red Bull will suddenly come good for qualifying. Max will win and lead by c.10 points.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. I don’t see the point, and they haven’t had a propensity to hide huge chunks of pace in practice this season.

They’ll improve, undoubtedly. But they were definitely caught out by the grip levels and they’ve had to compensate for the understeer by adding quite a bit of rear wing. Verstappen seemed genuinely disappointed.

Same with Marko. And he usually is pretty happy to crow whenever RBR are ahead lol.



The last time RBR suffered from understeer like this was Hungary.

Mercedes brought a range of options so the car’s downforce levels could be tailored to whatever the grip level turned out to be, but the basic traits of the car are said not to have been substantially different throughout this range. A high-rake car, with inherently a lot more movement of the aerodynamic balancing point, tends to be more sensitive and though both cars were troubled by understeer, the Red Bull was visibly more so.

In-car footage from Max Verstappen shows a rear end which in the slow corners looks simply too powerful for the front. Interestingly, the AlphaTauri of Pierre Gasly looked very similar. Through Turns 4 and 5, for example, they are forced to apply more steering lock as the understeer builds. Then as the front finally fully bites part-way through the turn, there will be an oversteer snap as the fronts have too much lock on for their grip. Both states cost a bleed of lap time.

[Is it just] a case of bringing everything together overnight and putting itself back in play? Or is it a Hungary-like situation where they just cannot get the car balanced around their high-downforce rear wing (which is absolutely needed here)?

[A]s things looked today, Valtteri Bottas looks the heavy favourite and that should worry Verstappen on what should be a very fruitful weekend for his championship hopes.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... portunity/

[Zynerji]

What I find odd, is that Perez seems to be closer to the front when Verstappen is complaining of understeer. I think this goes some way to explaining that the way the RB has been designed in recent years, which was very on the nose, really suits Vertsappen, but not many others have a similar style and can't cope with it.

Sounds like a Raikkonen car then...

[Mogster]

What I find odd, is that Perez seems to be closer to the front when Verstappen is complaining of understeer. I think this goes some way to explaining that the way the RB has been designed in recent years, which was very on the nose, really suits Vertsappen, but not many others have a similar style and can't cope with it.

Could well be something in that. I think.

Yes, it’s very interesting.

[PlatinumZealot]

Very strange so far. Do I believe that RB is this far back and Ferrari are this fast?

Would be interesting if this is a real change in the competitive order.

Half a tonne of sand involved. Red Bull will suddenly come good for qualifying. Max will win and lead by c.10 points.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. I don’t see the point, and they haven’t had a propensity to hide huge chunks of pace in practice this season.

They’ll improve, undoubtedly. But they were definitely caught out by the grip levels and they’ve had to compensate for the understeer by adding quite a bit of rear wing. Verstappen seemed genuinely disappointed.

Same with Marko. And he usually is pretty happy to crow whenever RBR are ahead lol.

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status ... 09601?s=21

The last time RBR suffered from understeer like this was Hungary.

Mercedes brought a range of options so the car’s downforce levels could be tailored to whatever the grip level turned out to be, but the basic traits of the car are said not to have been substantially different throughout this range. A high-rake car, with inherently a lot more movement of the aerodynamic balancing point, tends to be more sensitive and though both cars were troubled by understeer, the Red Bull was visibly more so.

In-car footage from Max Verstappen shows a rear end which in the slow corners looks simply too powerful for the front. Interestingly, the AlphaTauri of Pierre Gasly looked very similar. Through Turns 4 and 5, for example, they are forced to apply more steering lock as the understeer builds. Then as the front finally fully bites part-way through the turn, there will be an oversteer snap as the fronts have too much lock on for their grip. Both states cost a bleed of lap time.

[Is it just] a case of bringing everything together overnight and putting itself back in play? Or is it a Hungary-like situation where they just cannot get the car balanced around their high-downforce rear wing (which is absolutely needed here)?

[A]s things looked today, Valtteri Bottas looks the heavy favourite and that should worry Verstappen on what should be a very fruitful weekend for his championship hopes.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... portunity/

You add rear wing to add more understeer actually.
RedBull is running their slippery spoon wing. They would have been expecting less understeer. It seems not make any sense the whole thing, but when you listen to Max, he is right. It is not an aero problem this is something with the tyres.

[ispano6]

It is very simple, the surface has more grip than anticipated. Marko and Max have been saying the same thing, which is too much grip. Max just needs a set up that suits his driving style, which is more oversteer, but that comes at a cost of degradation.

[ringo]

What I find odd, is that Perez seems to be closer to the front when Verstappen is complaining of understeer. I think this goes some way to explaining that the way the RB has been designed in recent years, which was very on the nose, really suits Vertsappen, but not many others have a similar style and can't cope with it.

Also possible that vertappen's direction is faster on some tracks and not others. His preffered feel in the car seems sensitive to balance and tyre temps. Looks like theyre missing Albon in the simulator already.
If it stays like this for redbull.. it would spice the season up even more if its ferrari that starts fighting for wins. But i am sure they will sort the car out for qualifying.