2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Gillian]

Looks slow to me. Bit late on the throttle pretty much the entire lap. He was complaining about understeer a lot.

[godlameroso]

Maybe they're running too much caster.

[basti313]

Looks slow to me. Bit late on the throttle pretty much the entire lap. He was complaining about understeer a lot.

Dunno....the steering looks so calm it does not even look like a real push lap.

[ringo]

Verstappen's fp1 lap 1.24.603 (P2)

https://streamable.com/l1zrd0

Late throttle and low grip at the rear from what i see. The track needs more rubbering in.

I cannot help but feel that white colour is throwing off the drivers. Maybe its dristracting to have such a big change.

[Gillian]

Verstappen's fp1 lap 1.24.603 (P2)

https://streamable.com/l1zrd0

Late throttle and low grip at the rear from what i see. The track needs more rubbering in.

I cannot help but feel that white colour is throwing off the drivers. Maybe its dristracting to have such a big change.

I think so too. Verstappen was complaining about mid-corner unbalance too. When his engineer asked to change wing levels he said it would not help because it was due to the tires.

[Wouter]

Like father, like son!

[Wouter]

Channel 4 Sport

Lee McKenzie sits down with the main man at Red Bull Racing, Christian Horner.
They discuss the championship hopes for Red Bull, the new developments at their Milton Keynes base,
race strategy, how he switches off from work and of course title chasing Max Verstappen.

[Big Tea]

Just watched the (recorded) FP and the Sky commentary seem to be hinting of a rumour of Honda staying in. Is there any truth in this, or mentioned anywhere else?
I would really love this to be true.

[Gillian]

Just watched the (recorded) FP and the Sky commentary seem to be hinting of a rumour of Honda staying in. Is there any truth in this, or mentioned anywhere else?
I would really love this to be true.

Well Honda are continuing to partner Red Bull to some extent. This is from the Honda website:

On the specific matter of the Honda Formula 1 PU, Red Bull Powertrains will have the right to use Honda IP from 2022, as a support for their F1 programmes with Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri teams. This is as a result of the request made to Honda by Red Bull following our announcement that we are leaving the sport.

●The three key points of the agreement between the two companies are:

1) Red Bull Powertrains has the right to use Honda’s IP relating to the Power Unit.

2) Honda will support Red Bull Powertrains in building the 2022 PU and also provide trackside and race operation support from Japan throughout the 2022 season, and from 2023, Red Bull Powertrains will take responsibility for all manufacturing and servicing of Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri’s engines.

3) Employees of Honda Racing Development UK (Milton Keynes) will become employees of Red Bull Powertrains.

The way I interpret it all is that short term not a lot will be changing relatively, apart from moving any or all manufacturing away from Japan. They get to use the IP, get the same primary personnel and support from Honda for a while.

Of course its all about the money and in that regard the costs shift more to Red Bull and away from Honda. But I think all in all its very interesting and I can't wait to see how it will work out in the next few years, especially considering some Mercedes personnel joining in too.

[Big Tea]

Just watched the (recorded) FP and the Sky commentary seem to be hinting of a rumour of Honda staying in. Is there any truth in this, or mentioned anywhere else?
I would really love this to be true.

Well Honda are continuing to partner Red Bull to some extent. This is from the Honda website:

On the specific matter of the Honda Formula 1 PU, Red Bull Powertrains will have the right to use Honda IP from 2022, as a support for their F1 programmes with Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri teams. This is as a result of the request made to Honda by Red Bull following our announcement that we are leaving the sport.

●The three key points of the agreement between the two companies are:

1) Red Bull Powertrains has the right to use Honda’s IP relating to the Power Unit.

2) Honda will support Red Bull Powertrains in building the 2022 PU and also provide trackside and race operation support from Japan throughout the 2022 season, and from 2023, Red Bull Powertrains will take responsibility for all manufacturing and servicing of Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri’s engines.

3) Employees of Honda Racing Development UK (Milton Keynes) will become employees of Red Bull Powertrains.

The way I interpret it all is that short term not a lot will be changing relatively, apart from moving any or all manufacturing away from Japan. They get to use the IP, get the same primary personnel and support from Honda for a while.

Of course its all about the money and in that regard the costs shift more to Red Bull and away from Honda. But I think all in all its very interesting and I can't wait to see how it will work out in the next few years, especially considering some Mercedes personnel joining in too.

Thanks. I really hope they continue to at least partner the engine factory.

[JordanMugen]

Thanks. I really hope they continue to at least partner the engine factory.

Aren't RBR (and AT) essentially going to be running frozen Honda customer power units in '22, and then take over assembly/servicing etc for '23 to '25? Perhaps Honda will remain contracted to provide some of the parts which are more difficult to manufacture.

Similar to how Minardi prepared in-house Cosworth V10 (or was it Fondmetal, I don't remember) units, for example.

To think, all this kerfuffle could have be avoided if Mercedes would just present a customer power unit contract for Red Bull -- go figure. Heck they could have provided that back in '16 -- local industry supporting local local industry, economies of scale etc -- the factories are only 25 miles apart after all!

The way I interpret it all is that short term not a lot will be changing relatively

Yamamoto-san made clear that since the Honda motorhome (sushi truck? ) won't be there, then Honda is not in the sport -- at least not officially.

The lack of marketing activation activites, lack of company cars etc, would make the likelihood of any kind of Honda branding or advertising (let alone engine badging) seems unlikely IMO. Yamamoto-san noted it would be under the HRC banner, like MotoGP, so there might be a small HRC decal on the Red Bull somewhere perhaps?

Yamamoto says:

From our point of view the end of the project is the end of this year. That’s why we’re focusing on winning the championship. Next year will be a transition, some people staying on to give our job to them. The easiest way of saying is we will be gone – marketing and management – from trackside. So, Honda is gone.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-f1 ... he-future/

Honda says:

1) Red Bull Powertrains has the right to use Honda’s IP relating to the Power Unit.
2) Honda will support Red Bull Powertrains in building the 2022 PU and also provide trackside and race operation support from Japan throughout the 2022 season, and from 2023, Red Bull Powertrains will take responsibility for all manufacturing and servicing of Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri’s engines.
3) Employees of Honda Racing Development UK (Milton Keynes) will become employees of Red Bull Powertrains.

In an operational change, all these four-wheeled motorsport activities will now come under the umbrella of HRC (Honda Racing Corporation). Specifically, HRC will support the Red Bull Group’s Formula 1 activity in 2022, taking charge of all the above-mentioned points.

https://honda.racing/f1/post/honda-redbull-from-2022

[Big Tea]

Thanks. I really hope they continue to at least partner the engine factory.

Aren't RBR (and AT) essentially going to be running frozen Honda customer power units in '22, and then take over assembly/servicing etc for '23 to '25? Perhaps Honda will remain contracted to provide some of the parts which are more difficult to manufacture.

Similar to how Minardi prepared in-house Cosworth V10 (or was it Fondmetal, I don't remember) units, for example.

To think, all this kerfuffle could have be avoided if Mercedes would just present a customer power unit contract for Red Bull -- go figure. Heck they could have provided that back in '16 -- local industry supporting local local industry, economies of scale etc -- the factories are only 25 miles apart after all!

The way I interpret it all is that short term not a lot will be changing relatively

Yamamoto-san made clear that since the Honda motorhome (sushi truck? ) won't be there, then Honda is not in the sport -- at least not officially.

The lack of marketing activation activites, lack of company cars etc, would make the likelihood of any kind of Honda branding or advertising (let alone engine badging) seems unlikely IMO. Yamamoto-san noted it would be under the HRC banner, like MotoGP, so there might be a small HRC decal on the Red Bull somewhere perhaps?

Yamamoto says:

From our point of view the end of the project is the end of this year. That’s why we’re focusing on winning the championship. Next year will be a transition, some people staying on to give our job to them. The easiest way of saying is we will be gone – marketing and management – from trackside. So, Honda is gone.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-f1 ... he-future/

Honda says:

1) Red Bull Powertrains has the right to use Honda’s IP relating to the Power Unit.
2) Honda will support Red Bull Powertrains in building the 2022 PU and also provide trackside and race operation support from Japan throughout the 2022 season, and from 2023, Red Bull Powertrains will take responsibility for all manufacturing and servicing of Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri’s engines.
3) Employees of Honda Racing Development UK (Milton Keynes) will become employees of Red Bull Powertrains.

In an operational change, all these four-wheeled motorsport activities will now come under the umbrella of HRC (Honda Racing Corporation). Specifically, HRC will support the Red Bull Group’s Formula 1 activity in 2022, taking charge of all the above-mentioned points.

https://honda.racing/f1/post/honda-redbull-from-2022

There seems to be all sorts of 'talk' that RBR are going to Porsche vw or some other builder, which I have to assume wil elbow aside any involvement with Honda.

I prefer Honda to stay in, and VW have said every second year since Otto had his cycle that they were 'coming to F1' to show them how its done. We are still waiting, and not holding our breath.

As for the Merc deal, I (personally) am glad they did not fix up as it would mean one less engine builder in F1

[PlatinumZealot]

The Honda VW clash seems worrying, but its not, really. 2026 is enough time for things to be cleared up and sorted before VW comes in to work at RB powertrains.
I think the only IP Honda gave to RedBull are the rights to rename the engine and build it and manafucture a few select parts and thats about it, so they shouldn't worry about VW sleuths stealing secrets for now.

[Mr.S]

I am surprised that RB hasn't brought any major upgrade into the 2nd half of the season after Mercedes brought the huge upgrade in Silverstone & the new Pirelli tyres helping them. Both RB & Mercedes have played with Rear Wing or Front or little bit in the floor but nothing really major.

RB is now on an average down 2-3 tenths on the Mercedes, maybe 1-2 tenths, who knows. But they are not trying to find the 2 tenths which can bring them the WDC & WCC - Basically all teams (Ferrari Mclaren Mercedes RB Alpine Aston Martin etc have stopped major car developed 1-2 races before the mid-season break). With all the RB upgrade & developing car till late talk, RB have stepped back.

If they don't bring an upgrade to the US, I don't know when. I can't see them bringing upgrades to Mexico or Brazil where it is difficult to judge & then Qatar/Abu Dhabi is too late, the season is almost over.

[AeroDynamic]

Losail has a very similar corner section as t8 in Turkey. Do the rest of the corners lend more to the RB though? Maybe after solving the set up woe they could be closer or even ahead